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Needabiggerstack · 03-06-2012, 10:03 AM

(03-06-2012 09:14 AM)victor kruger Wrote: If you purchase silver coinage in Europe you pay 7% VAT not 20.... now heres the trick. If you pay the 7% tax in the country you purchase in you wont have to pay the VAT again bringing it into the UK. There are rules and regulations about taking delivery and location but if you do take delivery in another EU country and pay your tax you cant be charged again after in the UK when you bring it home. I have checked this personally with HM customs & excise and regularly purchase in Europe simply to save myself 13% tax. There is nothing illegal about it the UK is an EU member and you cannot be charged VAT twice in the EU in different member countries.

This is only true to an extent. If like CoinInvestdirect you do more than £70k in business in a year, then they have to charge the full 20% VAT if they ship to the UK. The trick as I mentioned before is to find smalltime retailers in Europe who will do nowhere near that amount of business so you only have to pay the VAT rate of their country.

victor kruger · (This post was last modified: 03-06-2012 01:10 PM by victor kruger.)

(03-06-2012 10:03 AM)Needabiggerstack Wrote:
(03-06-2012 09:14 AM)victor kruger Wrote: If you purchase silver coinage in Europe you pay 7% VAT not 20.... now heres the trick. If you pay the 7% tax in the country you purchase in you wont have to pay the VAT again bringing it into the UK. There are rules and regulations about taking delivery and location but if you do take delivery in another EU country and pay your tax you cant be charged again after in the UK when you bring it home. I have checked this personally with HM customs & excise and regularly purchase in Europe simply to save myself 13% tax. There is nothing illegal about it the UK is an EU member and you cannot be charged VAT twice in the EU in different member countries.

This is only true to an extent. If like CoinInvestdirect you do more than £70k in business in a year, then they have to charge the full 20% VAT if they ship to the UK. The trick as I mentioned before is to find smalltime retailers in Europe who will do nowhere near that amount of business so you only have to pay the VAT rate of their country.

Wanna bet ? Wink

Unlimited amounts of silver coins at 7% VAT subject to collection in Germany
and i quote...
CoinInvestDirect.com is now offering its international customers within the EC the opportunity to collect orders in Germany. Silver coins can then be purchased at the German VAT rate of 7%!

As a mail order business we are subject to Article 34 of the EC-guideline 2006/112/EC and the therein established quotas which limit the international sales of VAT-liable goods. This guideline is, however, only applicable when we ship the goods to our clients. The quotas do therefore not apply when the goods are being collected or if the buyer instructs a courier service with the collection in Germany and the shipping. With this in mind we are offering the following options:

i suggest you read their site and the pick up in Germany option fully.

I have never paid more than the 7% and i assure you ive had various conversations about this subject, the above is correct and current.

PirateGimP · 03-06-2012, 01:34 PM

Kruger strikes again Smile

Needabiggerstack · 03-06-2012, 01:42 PM

(03-06-2012 01:08 PM)victor kruger Wrote: i suggest you read their site and the pick up in Germany option fully.

I have never paid more than the 7% and i assure you ive had various conversations about this subject, the above is correct and current.

What sort of price are we talking for insured couriers? I'd imagine for the minimum £200 order for small time stackers it wouldn't be worth it.

Thanks for the heads up though. And good to see PirategimP out of the doghouse too btw.

victor kruger · (This post was last modified: 03-06-2012 02:21 PM by victor kruger.)

(03-06-2012 01:34 PM)PirateGimP Wrote: Kruger strikes again

Welcome back you little banned spammer you Wink

Id add to that above post that ive found the cost of courier is comparable to going to collect, not much in it but the courier used is Via Matt who specialise in bullion and who are right next door to them at Frankfurt airport.

Via Matt charges are normal and in Euros.

Carriage for 1st kilo 85.00 Euros this is the basic charge ... then
Add on per kilo 2.5 Euros
VMI liability transport insurance 1% of declared bullion value
Add on 19% VAT for the total service to get ultimate total....

No its not worth doing for small orders you have to make it work for you like most things it dosnt fit all, you have to do your math and work out if its worth it.

However you can get there by coach return for about £95 and or a cheap flight in to Frankfurt if you can find it in the morning and back home might make it cheaper to collect. Theres a 15 - 30 euro window collection charge for this and you need to add in the taxi cost to and from airport etc.

ive often thought about the savings people could make if working as a team so if you have some good mates that are also stacker's.....

Enkidu · 03-06-2012, 05:42 PM

That would be a good idea, give me 30k and I will go collect your silver for you Wink

hahaha.. It would be difficult to trust anyone if doing this.......

VAT is such a rip off on silver, the law needs to be changed! But if brotherjohn is right, 20% at these discounted rates will be nothing when silver goes to the moon.

John silver · 03-12-2012, 01:56 PM

What happens if you invest in their gold products, do you still have to pay VAT?..............or is Gold VAT free in Europe as well?

victor kruger · 03-12-2012, 02:56 PM

(03-12-2012 01:56 PM)John silver Wrote: What happens if you invest in their gold products, do you still have to pay VAT?..............or is Gold VAT free in Europe as well?

7% on minted coins 19% on generic and bars

John silver · 03-12-2012, 04:46 PM

Thanks, so for a Brit, UK gold is cheaper, and if I buy silver direct and use a courier I can still pay only 7%, if I understand you correctly?

victor kruger · 03-12-2012, 04:50 PM

cheaper re no VAT yes but still its expensive Wink

the rest you are correct about yes

John silver · 03-12-2012, 06:55 PM

Yeah ,you have to look around to get the best deals, and it is not always so simple.swings and roundabouts.but I'll certainly look at these guys in the future. At present I'm just buying my fill of channel island silver before we get VAT on half ounces , and I want some small coinage for my collection anyway....................LOL

victor kruger · 03-12-2012, 09:19 PM

Ahh its you whos been depleting their stock huh ? Smile

John silver · 03-13-2012, 04:54 AM

I wish!!.I've only discovered this little loophole about a month ago, but buying from Germany sounds good. I wonder what the VAT is in other European countries, and whether it may be worthwhile looking around. I understand as well that coins classed as "legal tender" do not attract VAT

victor kruger · (This post was last modified: 03-13-2012 06:55 AM by victor kruger.)

Britannias are legal tender but they do attract VAT

The only jurisdictions in Europe where physical silver can be bought and sold at a VAT rate of 0% are Estonia, Guernsey, and, for physical bullion coins,Norway which is part of the wider EEA free-trading area and has the same VAT rules on 'intra-community transactions' due to bilateral EFTA agreements with the rest of Europe. Estonian and Norwegian companies can legally deliver free of VAT to the rest of Europe within certain annual limits or can arrange for local pickup. Alternatively, they generally offer storage for the customer who can take delivery of his purchase later or sell it back to the vendor.
Other taxes such as capital gains tax may apply for individuals depending on country of residence (tax status) and whether the asset is sold at increased nominal value.

Good luck with finding dealers in either Estonia or worse Norway.

ImTooLate · (This post was last modified: 03-13-2012 08:06 AM by ImTooLate.)

Unless you're planning on selling your silver abroad, the silver price for you is the silver price for you and that's it.
Check on ebay, I bet there is nothing on there any cheaper than you can buy from a bullion dealer. Forget about the tax, none of us like it, but the price is the price. If I could buy silver in UK without the heavy premium, I would have been doing so for years :-)
Travel to avoid taxes should be costed in, just stay cosy and don't worry about it too much...

victor kruger · 03-13-2012, 09:50 AM

Always cost everything in or your only kidding or may even be fleecing yourself

John silver · 03-13-2012, 01:12 PM

Well I think Guernsey laws are changinmg which is why I'm buying from there for now, but after that I think Germany looks good, although I do buy gold as well, and it pays to look around , and you also have to be careful of who you deal with, especially on ebay. It would be nice to get a "good ones list" of all the people and organisations who sell and the best deals etc

Needabiggerstack · (This post was last modified: 03-13-2012 01:29 PM by Needabiggerstack.)

Ok, may as well share this guy with you since I'm starting to buy more junk silver than bullion these days but this is an example of where to get cheaper silver, UK VAT Free, legally. Find a small time European supplier and you'll get cheaper prices.

Found the guy on Ebay, he is from Slovenia with over 4000 positive feedback. This guy is more for the smaller investor because his stock inventory is low (so low he's out of maples & ASE's atm)

http://www.1oz.si

Philharmonics for 26.26, Maples for 26.60, Eagles for £27.90

No VAT charged on delivery to UK because you've paid Slovenian VAT and he's under the 70,000 sales threshold. Shipping for a single coin £1.75, Registered shipping as low as £4.50 for any amount. Appreciate you may be able to match those prices at places like Atkinsons the jewellers but not for single coins. Only downside is a 7 day wait for delivery.

PirateGimP · (This post was last modified: 03-13-2012 02:50 PM by PirateGimP.)

I Purchased a few Rwandan Rhino's and Koala's at what i'd consider a great price, There's some real bargains to be had it takes a week for delivery but well packaged and good communication too. Looks like i'm going to place another order before all the best deals get taken Philly's @ £520ish for the tube.

NBStack have you used unregistered post yet with this Merchant ? I thought you weren't going to post the link Wink

Bet you just couldn't help yourself?

Anyways He's a good vendor and deserves the business.. Also try this http://www.nufira.si/shop/index.php?route=common/home for your coloured coins and more numismatics I'm not sure they deliver to UK as they only show prices in euros I've EMailed them to find out??

Needabiggerstack · 03-13-2012, 02:40 PM

(03-13-2012 02:23 PM)PirateGimP Wrote: NBStack have you used unregistered post yet with this Merchant ? I thought you weren't going to post the link ;)Bet you just couldn't help yourself?

Anyways He's a good vendor and deserves the business.. Also try this http://www.nufira.si/shop/index.php?route=common/home for your coloured coins and more numismatics I'm not sure they deliver to UK as they only show prices in euros I've EMailed them to find out??

Yes, no problems with unregistered post. Items come well packaged in capsules too. I wasn't going to post the link but thought what the hell. If somebody else hadn't tipped me off I'd be none the wiser either Tongue

PirateGimP · 03-13-2012, 02:52 PM

Yes thanks for the link have you checked out nufira.si yet ?

Needabiggerstack · 03-13-2012, 03:20 PM

Yes, have a feeling they're connected unless its just the same website company providing the site! Can't vouch for them in the same way as 1oz though. Let us know if they deliver to the UK.

victor kruger · (This post was last modified: 03-13-2012 03:56 PM by victor kruger.)

Nice links guys, we are building up a good list here Big Grin

Guernsey laws change on April 1 to full VAT payable i believe Sad

PirateGimP · 03-13-2012, 04:25 PM

(03-13-2012 03:20 PM)Needabiggerstack Wrote: Yes, have a feeling they're connected unless its just the same website company providing the site! Can't vouch for them in the same way as 1oz though. Let us know if they deliver to the UK.

Just placed an order for 3 Somaliland lunar series Tiger,Rabbit & a Dragon they seem unique tiger was first issue.
I'll let you know if there's anything out of sorts they only do registered post and I paid with paypal, Just incase.
should be fine though.
Some very good prices on single coins.

Needabiggerstack · (This post was last modified: 03-13-2012 05:09 PM by Needabiggerstack.)

(03-13-2012 03:55 PM)victor kruger Wrote: Guernsey laws change on April 1 to full VAT payable i believe

Yes, I wonder how they are going to model their business from now on. They will not be able to compete with companies in the EU on price.

The smaller company within the EU is the way to go imo, unless spending £1k a time with CiD which unfortunately is a bit out of my league with mouths to feed!

(03-13-2012 04:25 PM)PirateGimP Wrote: Just placed an order for 3 Somaliland lunar series Tiger,Rabbit & a Dragon they seem unique tiger was first issue.
I'll let you know if there's anything out of sorts they only do registered post and I paid with paypal, Just incase.
should be fine though.
Some very good prices on single coins.

Yes, please do give feedback - will be another site to add to the list.