Sometimes I can ...somethimes I cant...

[Dom2012]

I was in the city of London today...(I live by canary wharf), Literally every single street I walked down had construction work happening of some sort, all funded by the loans provided by banks lending to business.... I was thinking to myself while I was walking, what would actually happen on the streets of our major cities if there was a massive economic downturn, that i'm convinced will happen..........?

Can the governments of the world actually let this happen?! can they even stop it ?! ....is it even going to happen ?!

Sometimes i'm totally convinced that the end of the current system is close.....and days like today I just fail to see how it could happen, how could everything just fail? how could there be no money for the economies of the globe to continue doing business ?!
Could liquidity just dry up and everything goes on hold until it's fixed.........true, life would go on, but what happens to all the "stuff" we build ?

[97guns]

(06-08-2012 10:45 AM)Dom2012 Wrote:  I was in the city of London today...(I live by canary wharf), Literally every single street I walked down had construction work happening of some sort, all funded by the loans provided by banks lending to business.... I was thinking to myself while I was walking, what would actually happen on the streets of our major cities if there was a massive economic downturn, that i'm convinced will happen..........?

Can the governments of the world actually let this happen?! can they even stop it ?! ....is it even going to happen ?!

Sometimes i'm totally convinced that the end of the current system is close.....and days like today I just fail to see how it could happen, how could everything just fail? how could there be no money for the economies of the globe to continue doing business ?!
Could liquidity just dry up and everything goes on hold until it's fixed.........true, life would go on, but what happens to all the "stuff" we build ?

this credit based economy will come to an end eventually, if credit drives everything it is a vicious cycle that has to come to a head.

consumer credit and ALL credit is just like derivitives, credit creates more credit, the credit can not stop or the game is over.

[dragonfly5]

I often wonder about this as well. Being in Canada generally things are better economically than other parts and when I go into businesses I see that companies are expanding and heads of business are planning 3-5 years ahead and I think to myself do they know what sort of thin ice we are all on - how easily things could change for the worse and how few people are prepared for it.

I moved to Toronto in the early 80's - there was a recession then and although I heard on the news that "times were tough", I had no idea about how bad it was - until I got laid off from work. I think we often forget how fast some stuff "stops" when times are tough.

That being said - what happens to all the stuff we have? No idea. I look at all the malls and shopping complexes and wonder to myself - do we need all this??? How is it sustainable? I walk thorough the mall and wonder how it is that even half the businesses are still in business - are there still that many people buying "stuff"?? Within a 30 minute drive I can get myself to at least 6-8 big box home depot type stores - is that sustainable??? And yet they seem to be making money, staying in business, employing a bunch of people . . .

I read somewhere that even if the economy of the US would shrink by 50% it would still be a strong economy in terms of overall $$$ - but I read so much about how the US is in debt - not only people but state governments and wonder how can it go on??

Good question - looking forward to some other thoughts on this.

[Dom2012]

exactly, that's why today (i'll probably change my mind tomorrow) i cant see how it would happen .....i mean how bad has it got to get before it actually affects people on the street?!

I've been watching lots of films and vids on the 2008 crash of late...and i can hardly believe how bad things got........BUT I didnt even notice!. About 50% was wiped off the markets and it didnt even register on my radar!!!!!!!!!!!! i wasn't investing money in metals then and i wasnt paying any attention to the economy, much like 99% of everyday people .....

So this will have to be one mother of a crash to get people to notice it! The only difference now is that the economy is more in the spotlight with regards to the media. Since all the big bailouts is more in the public eye than back in '08.

[Dom2012]

(06-08-2012 11:11 AM)dragonfly5 Wrote:  I look at all the malls and shopping complexes and wonder to myself - do we need all this??? How is it sustainable? I walk thorough the mall and wonder how it is that even half the businesses are still in business - are there still that many people buying "stuff"??

My thoughts exactly, we have in recent years had two very large shopping complexes built in central London under the name of "Westfield" I went to one yesterday to eat............ I was so taken back by its size even my girlfriend asked me "what was up?" lol
I was thinking that this is just one of two centers like this in London alone and there are some 40 odd in the UK, the Uk is tiny !!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_...ng_centres

thats not to mention all the smaller ones and the countless miles of highstreets lined with shops....

then it hit me....With 8 billion people on the planet we consume a VAST amount of "stuff"!

but could an economic collapse stop this ?! the '08 crash didnt ?!
how big exactly has the crash got to be before life as we know it changes ?!

[dragonfly5]

Agreed - I did notice 2008 - got hit bad with RRSP's and kids education funds. My financial adviser (former!!!) phoned up before the crash (in August) and actually said - things are going to get bad - but don't worry. 3 months later my portfolio is down 40%. Now it did recover somewhat and I am out of the market completely now - but maybe because we are so much more "awake" now it's like we look around at what is happening now and wonder how it manages to stand without collapsing upon itself.

I think the economy is more in the spotlight for those of us on the forum and similar forums - I'm not too sure about the general public.

[Dom2012]

I had the pleasure of talking to a diamond broker on the phone the other day, he said that every week he meets up with a group of banker friends at a bar in Canary wharf (the city of londons evil twin, aka the home of the london whale @jpm) He said that they all seemed quite on edge of late and have even advised him to take out any money he has invested in the equity markets !!! and ..............(you probably wont believe this but) they told him to invest in silver!
To which I laughed and told him how much I own, he relied with ................."HOW MUCH !?" lol

[Viper_99]

I totally agree with you guys. It seems impossible for a collapse to happen it is so out of our experience. Remember most of the people from the 1930's are gone, our only reality is economic progress and boom. Even our wars don't really affect us like WWI or WWII. Car production goes on, there is no conscription, they haven't rationed war materials. I think we are in for the shock of our lives. We have just had it too easy and think our paradigm is the only one that exists. The reality is that we are luckiest people on the planet and that may end very soon.

[Dom2012]

It may sound a bit stupid but all this Mayan talk about the end of the world in 2012............ I've been saying for a couple of years now that, their prediction will be for the beginning of a global collapse. So not the end of the world literally but just as we know it today.
Which kinda makes sense it would be just after the US elections, so maybe an event in December will spell out our new path as Humans on planet earth!

"An Apocalypse (Greek: “lifting of the veil” or “revelation”) is a disclosure of something hidden from the majority of mankind in an era dominated by falsehood and misconception, i.e. the veil to be lifted." — Wikipedia

almost ironic that its a Greek word, ay??? .......... lol


"Both the Hopis and Mayans recognize that we are approaching the end of a World Age... In both cases, however, the Hopi and Mayan elders do not prophesy that everything will come to an end. Rather, this is a time of transition from one World Age into another. The message they give concerns our making a choice of how we enter the future ahead. Our moving through with either resistance or acceptance will determine whether the transition will happen with cataclysmic changes or gradual peace and tranquility. The same theme can be found reflected in the prophecies of many other Native American visionaries from Black Elk to Sun Bear."
— Joseph Robert Jochmans

[Viper_99]

(06-08-2012 12:23 PM)Dom2012 Wrote:  It may sound a bit stupid but all this Mayan talk about the end of the world in 2012............ I've been saying for a couple of years now that, their prediction will be for the beginning of a global collapse. So not the end of the world literally but just as we know it today.
Which kinda makes sense it would be just after the US elections, so maybe an event in December will spell out our new path as Humans on planet earth!

"An Apocalypse (Greek: “lifting of the veil” or “revelation”) is a disclosure of something hidden from the majority of mankind in an era dominated by falsehood and misconception, i.e. the veil to be lifted." — Wikipedia

almost ironic that its a Greek word, ay??? .......... lol


"Both the Hopis and Mayans recognize that we are approaching the end of a World Age... In both cases, however, the Hopi and Mayan elders do not prophesy that everything will come to an end. Rather, this is a time of transition from one World Age into another. The message they give concerns our making a choice of how we enter the future ahead. Our moving through with either resistance or acceptance will determine whether the transition will happen with cataclysmic changes or gradual peace and tranquility. The same theme can be found reflected in the prophecies of many other Native American visionaries from Black Elk to Sun Bear."
— Joseph Robert Jochmans

The Christian faith also has an end of this world belief. I believe strongly that this paradigm will only last a few more years.

[dragonfly5]

I'm an optimist by nature - but looking around me and seeing what's happening in this world - especially by those who wield power - any change or transition that is likely to happen - large or small - will I think tend to be more cataclysmic and filled with strife as opposed to a preferred peaceful and tranquil change.

[boyfromdixie]

well i was walking in a grocery store this morning in Birmingham Alabama and it looked like the prices on everything had doubled since i had been there a couple of weeks ago so i can see inflation could be making us all a lot poorer in a big hurry because we all have to eat.

[Ivan]

(06-08-2012 12:23 PM)Dom2012 Wrote:  It may sound a bit stupid but all this Mayan talk about the end of the world in 2012............ I've been saying for a couple of years now that, their prediction will be for the beginning of a global collapse. So not the end of the world literally but just as we know it today.
Which kinda makes sense it would be just after the US elections, so maybe an event in December will spell out our new path as Humans on planet earth!

"An Apocalypse (Greek: “lifting of the veil” or “revelation”) is a disclosure of something hidden from the majority of mankind in an era dominated by falsehood and misconception, i.e. the veil to be lifted." — Wikipedia

almost ironic that its a Greek word, ay??? .......... lol


"Both the Hopis and Mayans recognize that we are approaching the end of a World Age... In both cases, however, the Hopi and Mayan elders do not prophesy that everything will come to an end. Rather, this is a time of transition from one World Age into another. The message they give concerns our making a choice of how we enter the future ahead. Our moving through with either resistance or acceptance will determine whether the transition will happen with cataclysmic changes or gradual peace and tranquility. The same theme can be found reflected in the prophecies of many other Native American visionaries from Black Elk to Sun Bear."
— Joseph Robert Jochmans

i feel the same way about the 2012 prediction. its not the end but a new beginning. and its not going to be pretty.


I been asking the same question to my self about 6 months ago. At that time I was sitting in a restaurant next to inter coastal where nice looking boats were passing by, i live in miami. And i thought to my self, collapse? i just can't imaging it. And it drove me crazy for weeks, because we have so much stuff and wealth.

so my thought is on all of this. Mike Mallone has the right idea that makes sense, wealth never gets destroyed but it does transfer. and we here at this forum holding something in hopes to have some of the wealth transfer to us. and the collapse is the monetary system, not the wealth.

[dragonfly5]

(06-08-2012 04:21 PM)Ivan Wrote:  

(06-08-2012 12:23 PM)Dom2012 Wrote:  It may sound a bit stupid but all this Mayan talk about the end of the world in 2012............ I've been saying for a couple of years now that, their prediction will be for the beginning of a global collapse. So not the end of the world literally but just as we know it today.
Which kinda makes sense it would be just after the US elections, so maybe an event in December will spell out our new path as Humans on planet earth!

"An Apocalypse (Greek: “lifting of the veil” or “revelation”) is a disclosure of something hidden from the majority of mankind in an era dominated by falsehood and misconception, i.e. the veil to be lifted." — Wikipedia

almost ironic that its a Greek word, ay??? .......... lol


"Both the Hopis and Mayans recognize that we are approaching the end of a World Age... In both cases, however, the Hopi and Mayan elders do not prophesy that everything will come to an end. Rather, this is a time of transition from one World Age into another. The message they give concerns our making a choice of how we enter the future ahead. Our moving through with either resistance or acceptance will determine whether the transition will happen with cataclysmic changes or gradual peace and tranquility. The same theme can be found reflected in the prophecies of many other Native American visionaries from Black Elk to Sun Bear."
— Joseph Robert Jochmans

i feel the same way about the 2012 prediction. its not the end but a new beginning. and its not going to be pretty.


I been asking the same question to my self about 6 months ago. At that time I was sitting in a restaurant next to inter coastal where nice looking boats were passing by, i live in miami. And i thought to my self, collapse? i just can't imaging it. And it drove me crazy for weeks, because we have so much stuff and wealth.

so my thought is on all of this. Mike Mallone has the right idea that makes sense, wealth never gets destroyed but it does transfer. and we here at this forum holding something in hopes to have some of the wealth transfer to us. and the collapse is the monetary system, not the wealth.

Agreed about the transfer of wealth - but I don't think it will be orderly or pretty by any stretch of the imagination. Hopefully our stacks will help see us through . . .

[Chronic]

2210 The Collapse -What on Earth happened to us

[PM Montner]

Very easy to let yourself be lulled back into the normalcy bias with the other 90%.

[Dom2012]

(06-08-2012 05:53 PM)Chronic Wrote:  2210 The Collapse -What on Earth happened to us

Yes thanks for posting, a very good watch! yet again echoing my views that the current way in which we live in the developed west is unsustainable.

I also like the section on how the great Roman empire failed and the way they reduced the gold and silver content of the coins!!! ...I guess that was probably the first instance of a government doing QE by diluting the money supply....and what happened..."runaway inflation" which they tried to fight with more and more taxation...aka "austerity" lol

Also how they highlighted that with ever growing populations there was always problems with money supply, so maybe our creation and model of "money" and how it works is only good for a certain size of population........?!
Maybe "money" as we know it and use it just doesn't work very will with 9 billion people on a global platform....? maybe we need a new system?

And then you factor in the greed/corruption of the banking sector in the past 40 years and the mind blowing debt bubble created in the derivatives markets........ you've got ya self one hell of a bad situation on your hands....


see I told you i'd change my mind today ! haha