Is the law done away with?

[findingyahsway]

[cosmyccowboy]

of course the law is not done away with... try stealing and murder and see!!! (unless you are a politicly connected democrat then you can do anything you wish!)

[Silver07]

Beautiful video.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12 KJV)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14 KJV)

[Silver07]

To all you Christian Pastors and teachers deceiving the masses about the law:

(04-22-2012 10:21 AM)Silver07 Wrote:  

(04-22-2012 03:35 AM)Chette Wrote:  Why would anyone want to yoke themselves under the law dietary or otherwise.

Here is what the Holy Bible says about anyone who would do the law


Ga 3:10-13 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Any man who would do the law brings himself under a curse.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. If you keep any part of the law the verse mentions circumcision so just replace that with dietary law and you too are required to keep it all. and that is impossible.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. If you miss even one of the laws not just dietary any one once you try to keep the law you are guilty. the problem is Christ took your guilt on the tree why would you want it back?

You can't keep just the dietary laws without keeping ALL the law.

Now if you want to live cleaner and healthier then do so but don't make a claim or a vow that you are trying or want to try to keep the dietary law you bring a curse upon yourself.

eat healthy but do so to glorify God because you practice good stewardship of you body in that there is a reward.

But if you are not saved dietary law may help you live healthier but you die and go to hell just the same as someone who didn't keep the law.

Emperor Constantine has you fooled. I find it interesting that the Christianity section was removed after this issue was addressed. I'll do my best to sum up the most common misconception/misinterpretation in the bible, which is the apostle Paul.

First and foremost Paul was a Hebrew and an Israelite NOT a Christian:

Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. (2 Corinthians 11:22)


So we must understand Paul knew the law VERY well. He was a scholar in Torah. Unlike today, where Christianity teaches you from the beginning the law was done away with or it's a curse so why keep it, or most importantly teach it?

If you don't understand the law or Hebraic perspective, how could you possibly say you understand Paul? As for the law itself, think of it as the teaching. It teaches and defines sin. So every time you see the word law mentioned by Paul, replace it with the word teaching.

The curse Paul refers to is the curse of the part of the law (teaching) of sin and death. Before Christ, the law (teaching) was to put transgressors of the law to death! Now we have an advocate with the Father through Christ Jesus to free us from the law (teaching) of sin and death:

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh (Romans 8:2-3)


So the curse Paul refers to is NOT the entire Torah. It is the curse of the law (teaching) to put transgressors to death!

The Christian - Roman - Grekko perspective teaches the ENTIRE Torah is a curse. This is spiritually retarded and your Pastors are deceived!

Sin still exists, for sin is transgression of the law. So after baptism you don't continue on sinning, you walk new, as a new creature. Dieing to the fleshly old sinner man who didn't understand the law (teaching). Now you walk in a new light under Jesus Christ in spirit and TRUTH!

Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth. (Psalms 119:142)



From the Christians personal apostle himself:

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
(Romans 6:1-2)


Shalom!

[Chette]

you guys are a joke and blasphemers of God.

You fail God's command to rightly divide, to compare spiritual things to spiritual, and your ever evolving final authority is base on your assumptions and understanding of heart but you forget Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it? You are deceived by your own heart.

[kshymkiw]

(04-24-2012 06:36 PM)Chette Wrote:  you guys are a joke and blasphemers of God.

You fail God's command to rightly divide, to compare spiritual things to spiritual, and your ever evolving final authority is base on your assumptions and understanding of heart but you forget Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it? You are deceived by your own heart.

Insulting people is no better. Calling people a joke, because they have opinions that are different than yours is just sad.

[cosmyccowboy]

all the big thefts, the one that have made major families wealthy for generations have always been done with the aid of the goverment!

[Chette]

hey calling people a joke is exactly what they are when they are misleading the flock of God that is not Israel and under the current church age for which a doctrine of Faith alone is to be taught for salvation.

I have been looking for days for this term "Is the law done away with? the law done away with is not in the preserved Holy Word of God. Now promoting terms not found in the Holy Bible if that is not a joke I don't know what is.

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Christ is saying here that the word of God pass away until all things in God's word be fulfilled and there are about 600 plus prophesies still to be fulfilled.

So far you have fulfilled some of them that Paul made. Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

1Ti 1:5 ¶ Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
Oh My loky there the law is not for the RIGHTEOUS but for the lawless, disobedient, ungodly, sinners, ets etc etc . . . . oh and those things you teach which are against the sound doctrine taught by Paul. You fall right into this category. you know why you put yourself under law so admittingly you are saying your a not a righteous man. I know I am for Christ made me righteous with his righteousness and no works of the law will make me any more righteous than I need to be to stand before God.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

and Peter 2Pe 2:1 ¶ But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

So as long as you mislead people form the simple faith in Christ alone for their lives I will oppose you and your false damnable heresies of obeying law after being saved just like Paul addressed in Galatians 3.

Opinions are like noses everybody has one. I rely not on my or any mans opinions but on the preserved word of God.

[Silver07]

(04-24-2012 10:04 PM)Chette Wrote:  you know why you put yourself under law so admittingly you are saying your a not a righteous man. I know I am for Christ made me righteous with his righteousness and no works of the law will make me any more righteous than I need to be to stand before God.

You are right. I was unrighteous. I was a wicked sinner. Broke every single one of God's commandments. Only through the blood of Jesus was I redeemed back to him. I repented for my sins and was baptized in His name.

So what do I do now? Go on sinning? Continue on justifying my old wicked fleshly man?

So if the law is a curse, is a yoke, doesn't need to be kept, then what are you repenting for? If it's not sin, then what is it? Why are you being baptized?

Did anyone here say the law gives you salvation? No.

Did anyone here say you'll now be perfect in keeping the law? No.

Was Jesus not the living walking Torah? You call yourself a follower of Christ then why don't you follow him? If you stumble you have grace to repent for your wickedness.

Oh I forgot, emperor Constantine and his harlots said as long as I take mental ascent to Jesus then nothing needs to change, I'm saved. Go back to sleep, celebrate christmas, easter, sunday, get drunk, keep eating swine. Be the best heathen pagan I can be! Hail Caesar and Alexander the Greek! (no emotion, lots of sarcasm)

[Chette]

(04-24-2012 11:15 PM)Silver07 Wrote:  You are right. I was unrighteous. I was a wicked sinner. Broke every single one of God's commandments. Only through the blood of Jesus was I redeemed back to him. I repented for my sins and was baptized in His name.

Did you repent of every sin before you believed on Christ? I doubt it, no one could. before I knew or broke any commandment I was a sinner condemned to death. Turning to God from my own way is what Paul taught. Repent means to turn from one thing unto another. Paul never taught to a gentile turn from the law unto God, and then turn back to the law again.

Acts 17:22 ¶ Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. It wasn't about violating the law it is the truth that all men are sinners but not all sinners are Jews.

Quote:So what do I do now? Go on sinning? Continue on justifying my old wicked fleshly man?

Of course not. Put off the old man and put on the new man that is not of the law but of Christ. And let no one judge as to meat or holiday Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Col 2:16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Quote:So if the law is a curse, is a yoke, doesn't need to be kept, then what are you repenting for? If it's not sin, then what is it? Why are you being baptized?

I repented of my ungodly wickedness and sin apart from the law. You see I did not need to hear the law as Paul explained the purpose of the law as a Jew, to know I was a wicked sinner, and to know the fact the soul that sinneth shall die. No one needs to be baptized to be saved today. It was part of the preparation for Israel to go into her kingdom taught under the kingdom gospel but it is not taught today Paul never once taught Baptism though he baptized a few. 1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 ¶ I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Quote:Did anyone here say the law gives you salvation? No.

I never said anything about the law saving. Galatians 3 is about doing something after they were saved not before or to get saved. which is what was going on in act 15. Ga 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Quote:Did anyone here say you'll now be perfect in keeping the law? No.

what is implied is you are trying to keep part of the LAW to keep part and not do it all is to be guilty of all. the beginning of the video the man said to them that want to keep the dietary laws, that keeping the dietary law goes deeper than not just eating pork, shellfish and so on. So the conclusion is he is instructing that after salvation you are to keep the law just like the men supposedly from James did in Acts and Galatians.
Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Acts 16:4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
Ac 16:5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily. You see the letters were written to churches and believers not unsaved people. this means they were saved and some were coming saying that now that they were saved they MUST keep the law of Moses. This is why I come and said NO to the dietary laws of Moses. I can choose not to eat pork or to eat pork, shellfish or snails it is nothing to me.

Quote:Was Jesus not the living walking Torah? You call yourself a follower of Christ then why don't you follow him? If you stumble you have grace to repent for your wickedness.

I am a follower of Christ through the teaching of Paul of the church age not the kingdom gospel John the baptist, Christ and the 12 apostles preached to Israel only. you confuse the gospels of the kingdom and grace together and they are not the same thing. Israel was set aside and Paul was called to go to the Gentiles with the gospel of Grace not the Kingdom. Paul never taught or teaches that I should follow the torah and anyone who says I have to is wrong. Jesus personal earthly ministry was to Israel alone. Through Paul the Holy Ghost is doing a earthly ministry today. the sad thing is when Paul tried to keep the law after being warned not to return to Jerusalem in every city he was stopped by God's providence and he never did complete the requirement of Law for purification. Because today Christ is our purification he makes us holy, pure, righteous, new creatures, new men, Christians.

Quote:Oh I forgot, emperor Constantine and his harlots said as long as I take mental ascent to Jesus then nothing needs to change, I'm saved. Go back to sleep, celebrate christmas, easter, sunday, get drunk, keep eating swine. Be the best heathen pagan I can be! Hail Caesar and Alexander the Greek! (no emotion, lots of sarcasm)

I never said a man should not have a changed life my life is changed because of Christ atonement of which I possess right now this very instance. And even if I did sin today that sin too is forgiven both past present and future.Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; I never a day in my life ever followed Constantine. I don't keep Christmas myself or my family, we have used it to reach out to people, I don't celebrate Easter that is a pagan holiday. I wont judge those Christians who do. Your false accusation that I take "mental ascent to Jesus then nothing needs to change" Sorry my life has completely changed. I don't get drunk and haven't since I got saved almost 20 years ago and if I eat pork I give thanks for it in prayer because I do believe that every creature in 1Tim 4 means every creature that would include pork.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Col 2:16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Do you know what handwriting of ordinances that was against me and you?

It was not the violation of Mosaic law. But it was, the soul that sinneth shall die." and all men are sinners. Jesus took my judgement of death upon him self and was executed in my place so that I can live to righteousness not sinfulness as you falsely accuse me. 1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Said in truth of God's Holy Preserved Word without insult, emotion or sarcasm

[Silver07]

(04-24-2012 06:36 PM)Chette Wrote:  I am a follower of Christ through the teaching of Paul of the church age not the kingdom gospel John the baptist, Christ and the 12 apostles preached to Israel only. you confuse the gospels of the kingdom and grace together and they are not the same thing. Israel was set aside and Paul was called to go to the Gentiles with the gospel of Grace not the Kingdom. Paul never taught or teaches that I should follow the torah and anyone who says I have to is wrong. Jesus personal earthly ministry was to Israel alone. Through Paul the Holy Ghost is doing a earthly ministry today.

So sad. Maybe one day you'll wake up and realize you are Israel and preach Christ, John, and the rest of the bible for that matter. The covenant is spiritual. Someone born outside the covenant could enter in just the same.

More than anything I pray for your congregation. That if someone questions your Roman - Grekko perspective of Paul, they're free to walk closer to how the Messiah walked. Or if they question your pre-tribulation rapture, they're free to do so. If they ask can Christians have demons? They're not told no.

Here's where the rubber meets the road for any Pastor. Does your congregation really truly understand sin? Is it taught, or is it masked behind your perspective of Paul? If someone in the congregation decides they don't want to be bound in iniquity and sin is that encouraged? Or is grace through Paul pushed instead to quell that issue? At what point do you ask yourself who's work am I really promoting if I don't teach people what living in sin and practicing sin does to them?

Is the congregation being freed from demons? Is deliverance taught? Does the Pastor and congregation lay hands on the sick and they recover?

I see you've dedicated your life to reaching out to people in a third world country, and I commend you for it. Now I hope grace may abound, you promote living free of sin and iniquity through Jesus Christ. Baptize for remission of sins, heal the sick, cast out devils, speak in tongues, cleanse the leopars, raise the dead.

May the true gospel be upon you and the signs that follow confirm it.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Mark 16:17, 18 KJV)

[Eliyahu]

(04-25-2012 10:24 AM)Silver07 Wrote:  

(04-24-2012 06:36 PM)Chette Wrote:  I am a follower of Christ through the teaching of Paul of the church age not the kingdom gospel John the baptist, Christ and the 12 apostles preached to Israel only. you confuse the gospels of the kingdom and grace together and they are not the same thing. Israel was set aside and Paul was called to go to the Gentiles with the gospel of Grace not the Kingdom. Paul never taught or teaches that I should follow the torah and anyone who says I have to is wrong. Jesus personal earthly ministry was to Israel alone. Through Paul the Holy Ghost is doing a earthly ministry today.

So sad. Maybe one day you'll wake up and realize you are Israel and preach Christ, John, and the rest of the bible for that matter. The covenant is spiritual. Someone born outside the covenant could enter in just the same.

More than anything I pray for your congregation. That if someone questions your Roman - Grekko perspective of Paul, they're free to walk closer to how the Messiah walked. Or if they question your pre-tribulation rapture, they're free to do so. If they ask can Christians have demons? They're not told no.

Here's where the rubber meets the road for any Pastor. Does your congregation really truly understand sin? Is it taught, or is it masked behind your perspective of Paul? If someone in the congregation decides they don't want to be bound in iniquity and sin is that encouraged? Or is grace through Paul pushed instead to quell that issue? At what point do you ask yourself who's work am I really promoting if I don't teach people what living in sin and practicing sin does to them?

Is the congregation being freed from demons? Is deliverance taught? Does the Pastor and congregation lay hands on the sick and they recover?

I see you've dedicated your life to reaching out to people in a third world country, and I commend you for it. Now I hope grace may abound, you promote living free of sin and iniquity through Jesus Christ. Baptize for remission of sins, heal the sick, cast out devils, speak in tongues, cleanse the leopars, raise the dead.

May the true gospel be upon you and the signs that follow confirm it.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Mark 16:17, 18 KJV)

I want to know why YaH just didn't use Shaul to die for us!! I feel so ROBBED (huge sarcasm there!). I mean..we all know Shaul is the best of the best right? His words trump the whole rest of the scriptures right?

Important question...Who were the 12 Apostles spoken of in the book of Revelation?

If you can answer that then you will understand some things. If you can't then I suggest you study before you teach.

[Chette]

Quote:So sad. Maybe one day you'll wake up and realize you are Israel and preach Christ, John, and the rest of the bible
for that matter. The covenant is spiritual. Someone born outside the covenant could enter in just the same.

I am ONE with Christ. I am of His New Testament which is different than a covenant. a covenant was never made with any church, the body of Christ, the fulness of him. what you teach is what Paul called ANOTHER JESUS and another Gospel, one that yokes to law that puts a man under a curse during this current church age.

Oh and by the way, in one of your previous posts you made a misnomer in saying that I said the "law was a curse". It shows how you like to read into the text that you read not just on forums but more than likely in your bible as well.

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

Gal 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Quote:More than anything I pray for your congregation. That if someone questions your Roman - Grekko perspective of Paul, they're free to walk closer to how the Messiah walked. Or if they question your pre-tribulation rapture, they're free to do so. If they ask can Christians have demons? They're not told no.

I never told them no. I have seen people who claim to be Christan's that are possessed and those who are not Christians possessed. As far as pre-Jacobs Trouble Gathering of the saints, these saints are saved ones by faith alone on Christ cross, into the clouds that is Biblical.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

2Th 2:1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
1Thess 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

1Thess 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1Thess 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. see 1thess 4:14-18
[/b]

see that day, the day of the lord is the day of deep darkness to complete the chastisement of Israel and to pour out his wrath on an unbelieving world, from which we as the body are freed from by the cross of Jesus Christ that is the purpose of the gathering so we don't have to go through the wrath that is described in Revelation.

For what use is if for Christ to take the wrath of God on himself for us and then we are subject to that wrath again?

Quote:Here's where the rubber meets the road for any Pastor. Does your congregation really truly understand sin? Is it taught, or is it masked behind your perspective of Paul? If someone in the congregation decides they don't want to be bound in iniquity and sin is that encouraged? Or is grace through Paul pushed instead to quell that issue? At what point do you ask yourself who's work am I really promoting if I don't teach people what living in sin and practicing sin does to them?

It seems like you have a twisted perspective of what sin is. It is not just a violation of the law of Moses it is anything that is against the person (his holiness, righteousness, his justice) and purposes of God, and that existed long before man was on this earth. Love of money is a sin and a root of ALL sin in this current world. so is pride but pride existed too long before man was on this earth. God said of Lucifer that "iniquity was found in him".

Quote:Is the congregation being freed from demons? Is deliverance taught? Does the Pastor and congregation lay hands on the sick and they recover?

you will need to clarify "Is the congregation being freed from demons? and Is deliverance taught" God is the only one who can heal or deliver anyone from devils. I don't lay hands on anyone except to place them in a church as an elder. Do you and the congregation you belong too lay hands on the sick and they recover or to expel devils?

I do teach that there is deliverance from the penalty of sin through the Cross of Jesus Christ

Quote:I see you've dedicated your life to reaching out to people in a third world country, and I commend you for it. Now I hope grace may abound, you promote living free of sin and iniquity through Jesus Christ. Baptize for remission of sins, heal the sick, cast out devils, speak in tongues, cleanse the leopars, raise the dead.And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Mark 16:17, 18 KJV)

I do promote living free of sin and iniquity through Christ's Cross.

No their sins were remitted on the cross they need not be baptized as part of their salvation ritual. Only their bodies are awaiting redemption and that is when they will be adopted
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children still future by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
No I do not heal the sick
No I do not cast out Devils
No I do not speak in tongues
No I do not cleans leopards
No I do not raise the dead
The last five "NO's" are part of the sign gifts for Jews and will begin again in the day of Jacobs trouble still to come. The Jew seeketh after a sign. and they have the right to seek a sign but not gentiles. those who build a gentile ministry on them lead people astray to seek signs and not Grace. Paul prayed three times for his healing and it never came, he left others sick, and others who were sick recovered by God grace but not by Paul laying hands on them. Some even died.

Quote:May the true gospel be upon you and the signs that follow confirm it.

the true gospel for this age is the Gospel of Grace, the gospel of Christ the Gospel of God which needs no signs. the Gospel of the Kingdom on the other hand does need signs and that gospel will start again during Jacob's trouble and it will have all the signs accompany it. the signs were for the Jews only. occasionally a sign of tongues is done with interpretation and someone gets saved and it turns out they are Jewish by birth.

I pray only that you will learn the difference between the three Gospels clearly revealed in God's Holy Bible. the differences of the dispensation of times.

[Chette]

(04-25-2012 11:53 AM)Eliyahu Wrote:  I want to know why YaH just didn't use Shaul to die for us!! I feel so ROBBED (huge sarcasm there!). I mean..we all know Shaul is the best of the best right? His words trump the whole rest of the scriptures right?

Saul had his name changed to his Roman name Paul to reach the Gentiles and Paul leads by example of a life as a Christian of whom we can follow. He never put trust in any other cross that that of Christ. to make such a false accusation that we put our trust in Paul is a twisting of my words.

Quote:Important question...Who were the 12 Apostles spoken of in the book of Revelation? If you can answer that then you will understand some things. If you can't then I suggest you study before you teach.

whom indeed?

what sayeth the Scriptures

Acts 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
15 ¶ And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Judas Iscariot is not there for he has gone unto his place and later will be in Hell. So it would be the eleven plus the one they cast lot by the leading of the Holy Ghost, Matthias.

[slavedriven]

Paul has his very OWN gospel didn't ya know?

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 2:16

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began . . .
Romans 16:25

Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel. 2Ti 2:8

This is copied from the KJV.

Realize that neither the Messiah nor the Apostles ever refered to it as His/their gospel.

Funny huh?

Check this article out.

"I wanna talk about me!"

No other epistle author in the Bible wrote like Paul. This would be true on a number of levels, but one aspect is of particular interest when we are considering how Paul views himself. He had a way of drawing attention to himself with his usage of personal pronouns. When it comes to how often he uses words like, "I", "me", "my", or "mine", the overall rate in his epistles is almost three times that of his next closest rival. There are a number of reasons why many scholars today believe Paul was not the author of the book of Hebrews. One obvious reason is, in the other epistles credited to him, Paul doesn't hesitate to identify himself along with his supposed credentials. The author of Hebrews is strangely silent on these matters. Many scholars believe Barnabas was the author of Hebrews, but I think Apollos is a far better candidate... but that's a different subject. The point is, no one knows for sure. But Paul certainly couldn't be in the running as the author of Hebrews when one also considers the statistical rate of the personal pronoun usage. The author of Hebrews refers to himself only 9 times, which is approximately 1.3 personal pronouns per thousand words. To help put this in perspective, let's compare the book of Hebrews to the book of Romans. They are both relatively large books of similar length, divided into 13 and 16 chapters respectively. Yet in only the first half of the first chapter of Romans, which is 16 verses worth, Paul uses twice as many personal pronouns as the author of Hebrews uses in his entire book! In the book of Romans, Paul refers to himself 103 times, which is rate of about 18.2 per thousand! That is 13x greater than Hebrews. In 1 Corinthians, Paul refers to himself 175 times, in 2Corinthians 103 times again, and in the relatively short book of Galatians, he refers to himself 69 times which is a rate of 25 personal pronouns per 1000 words!
judaismvschristianity.com

Paul loves himself doesn't he?

[Chette]

(04-25-2012 07:28 PM)slavedriven Wrote:  Paul has his very OWN gospel didn't ya know?

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 2:16

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began . . .
Romans 16:25

Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel. 2Ti 2:8

This is copied from the KJV.

Go back and look at the context and see that this gospel was not just the gospel of Grace, the gospel of God, the Gospel of his son, it was also the instruction he gave to live by.

Quote:Realize that neither the Messiah nor the Apostles ever refered to it as His/their gospel.

Funny huh?

Check this article out.

"I wanna talk about me!"

No other epistle author in the Bible wrote like Paul. This would be true on a number of levels, but one aspect is of particular interest when we are considering how Paul views himself. He had a way of drawing attention to himself with his usage of personal pronouns. When it comes to how often he uses words like, "I", "me", "my", or "mine", the overall rate in his epistles is almost three times that of his next closest rival. There are a number of reasons why many scholars today believe Paul was not the author of the book of Hebrews. One obvious reason is, in the other epistles credited to him, Paul doesn't hesitate to identify himself along with his supposed credentials. The author of Hebrews is strangely silent on these matters. Many scholars believe Barnabas was the author of Hebrews, but I think Apollos is a far better candidate... but that's a different subject. The point is, no one knows for sure. But Paul certainly couldn't be in the running as the author of Hebrews when one also considers the statistical rate of the personal pronoun usage. The author of Hebrews refers to himself only 9 times, which is approximately 1.3 personal pronouns per thousand words. To help put this in perspective, let's compare the book of Hebrews to the book of Romans. They are both relatively large books of similar length, divided into 13 and 16 chapters respectively. Yet in only the first half of the first chapter of Romans, which is 16 verses worth, Paul uses twice as many personal pronouns as the author of Hebrews uses in his entire book! In the book of Romans, Paul refers to himself 103 times, which is rate of about 18.2 per thousand! That is 13x greater than Hebrews. In 1 Corinthians, Paul refers to himself 175 times, in 2Corinthians 103 times again, and in the relatively short book of Galatians, he refers to himself 69 times which is a rate of 25 personal pronouns per 1000 words!
judaismvschristianity.com

Paul loves himself doesn't he?

The gospel the 12 apostles of Christ, the apostles of the circumcision were commanded of Jesus to preach was the Kingdom gospel and that only to Israel.
Mt 10:1 ¶ And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
5 ¶ These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. this same gospel was preached by Jesus and John the baptist
Mt 3:1 ¶ In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mt 4:23 ¶ And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Mt 9:35 ¶ And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
Mr 1:14 ¶ Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Can't you see that the gospel of the Kingdom is different than the gospel of the Kingdom of Grace. One is for Israel alone the other is for all men.

the elements of the Gospel of the Kingdom are believe, repent, be baptized for the remission, a future act, of sin. and that Kingdom was at hand.

The kingdom has not been at hand since 48AD. But it shall be at hand again after the gathering of the saints into the clouds before the day of Jacob's trouble, the day of the LORD, the day of his wrath.

check out the context of these verse and you will see the gospel of Grace is different than that of the Kingdom gospel.

Ac 14:7 And there they preached the gospel.
Ac 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and [to] Iconium, and Antioch,
Ac 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Ac 16:10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
Ac 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Ro 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Ro 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Ro 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Ro 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Ro 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Ro 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Ro 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
Ro 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
Ro 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
1Co 1:17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1Co 9:12 If others be partakers of [this] power over you, [are] not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
1Co 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.
1Co 9:18 What is my reward then? [Verily] that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with [you].
1Co 15:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2Co 2:12 ¶ Furthermore, when I came to Troas to [preach] Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord,
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 8:18 And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise [is] in the gospel throughout all the churches;
2Co 9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for [your] liberal distribution unto them, and unto all [men];
2Co 10:14 For we stretch not ourselves beyond [our measure], as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in [preaching] the gospel of Christ:
2Co 10:16 To preach the gospel in the [regions] beyond you, [and] not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
2Co 11:7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
Ga 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Ga 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Ga 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Ga 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
Ga 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Ga 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;
Ga 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Ga 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Ga 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:19 ¶ And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Php 1:5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
Php 1:7 ¶ Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.
Php 1:12 ¶ But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things [which happened] unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;
Php 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
Php 1:27 ¶ Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Php 2:22 But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.
Php 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and [with] other my fellowlabourers, whose names [are] in the book of life.
Php 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
1Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
1Th 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
1Th 2:4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
1Th 2:8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.
1Th 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
1Th 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
2Ti 2:8 ¶ Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Phm 1:13 Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel:

Paul's gospel also included all the instruction for Christian living. Why? because the kingdom was not at hand any more so Christians needed to learn how to live as Followers of Christ. Because no one knows when his second coming will be.
Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? you see even his disciples knew he would have a second coming. they thought it would be soon that is why they had all things in common in Early acts period when God in his longsuffering was still trying to get Israel to accept their Messiah but by Acts 8 they rejected the fulness of God a third time. They rejected Jehovah in the OT, they rejected His son in Matthew-John, and they rejected the Holy Ghost in Acts 1-7

I would you suggest you stop reading the Bible with your flesh and allow the Holy Ghost to guide you by comparing spiritual things with spiritual. and rightly divide the word of truth as we are commanded. and remember the scriptures are from God via inspiration not of Paul or men.

[Chette]

The law is not done away with.

not one bit of it will fail UNTIL all be fulfilled

[slavedriven]

(04-25-2012 08:21 PM)Chette Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 07:28 PM)slavedriven Wrote:  Paul has his very OWN gospel didn't ya know?

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 2:16

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began . . .
Romans 16:25

Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel. 2Ti 2:8

This is copied from the KJV.

Go back and look at the context and see that this gospel was not just the gospel of Grace, the gospel of God, the Gospel of his son, it was also the instruction he gave to live by.

Quote:Realize that neither the Messiah nor the Apostles ever refered to it as His/their gospel.

Funny huh?

Check this article out.

"I wanna talk about me!"

No other epistle author in the Bible wrote like Paul. This would be true on a number of levels, but one aspect is of particular interest when we are considering how Paul views himself. He had a way of drawing attention to himself with his usage of personal pronouns. When it comes to how often he uses words like, "I", "me", "my", or "mine", the overall rate in his epistles is almost three times that of his next closest rival. There are a number of reasons why many scholars today believe Paul was not the author of the book of Hebrews. One obvious reason is, in the other epistles credited to him, Paul doesn't hesitate to identify himself along with his supposed credentials. The author of Hebrews is strangely silent on these matters. Many scholars believe Barnabas was the author of Hebrews, but I think Apollos is a far better candidate... but that's a different subject. The point is, no one knows for sure. But Paul certainly couldn't be in the running as the author of Hebrews when one also considers the statistical rate of the personal pronoun usage. The author of Hebrews refers to himself only 9 times, which is approximately 1.3 personal pronouns per thousand words. To help put this in perspective, let's compare the book of Hebrews to the book of Romans. They are both relatively large books of similar length, divided into 13 and 16 chapters respectively. Yet in only the first half of the first chapter of Romans, which is 16 verses worth, Paul uses twice as many personal pronouns as the author of Hebrews uses in his entire book! In the book of Romans, Paul refers to himself 103 times, which is rate of about 18.2 per thousand! That is 13x greater than Hebrews. In 1 Corinthians, Paul refers to himself 175 times, in 2Corinthians 103 times again, and in the relatively short book of Galatians, he refers to himself 69 times which is a rate of 25 personal pronouns per 1000 words!
judaismvschristianity.com

Paul loves himself doesn't he?

The gospel the 12 apostles of Christ, the apostles of the circumcision were commanded of Jesus to preach was the Kingdom gospel and that only to Israel.
Mt 10:1 ¶ And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
5 ¶ These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. this same gospel was preached by Jesus and John the baptist
Mt 3:1 ¶ In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mt 4:23 ¶ And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Mt 9:35 ¶ And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
Mr 1:14 ¶ Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mr 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Can't you see that the gospel of the Kingdom is different than the gospel of the Kingdom of Grace. One is for Israel alone the other is for all men.

the elements of the Gospel of the Kingdom are believe, repent, be baptized for the remission, a future act, of sin. and that Kingdom was at hand.

The kingdom has not been at hand since 48AD. But it shall be at hand again after the gathering of the saints into the clouds before the day of Jacob's trouble, the day of the LORD, the day of his wrath.

check out the context of these verse and you will see the gospel of Grace is different than that of the Kingdom gospel.

Ac 14:7 And there they preached the gospel.
Ac 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and [to] Iconium, and Antioch,
Ac 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Ac 16:10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
Ac 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
Ro 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Ro 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
Ro 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Ro 1:16 ¶ For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Ro 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Ro 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Ro 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Ro 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
Ro 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
Ro 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.
Ro 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
1Co 1:17 ¶ For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
1Co 9:12 If others be partakers of [this] power over you, [are] not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
1Co 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
1Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.
1Co 9:18 What is my reward then? [Verily] that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with [you].
1Co 15:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2Co 2:12 ¶ Furthermore, when I came to Troas to [preach] Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord,
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 8:18 And we have sent with him the brother, whose praise [is] in the gospel throughout all the churches;
2Co 9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for [your] liberal distribution unto them, and unto all [men];
2Co 10:14 For we stretch not ourselves beyond [our measure], as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in [preaching] the gospel of Christ:
2Co 10:16 To preach the gospel in the [regions] beyond you, [and] not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
2Co 11:7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
Ga 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Ga 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Ga 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Ga 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
Ga 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Ga 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;
Ga 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Ga 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Ga 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:19 ¶ And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Php 1:5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
Php 1:7 ¶ Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.
Php 1:12 ¶ But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things [which happened] unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;
Php 1:17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
Php 1:27 ¶ Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Php 2:22 But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.
Php 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and [with] other my fellowlabourers, whose names [are] in the book of life.
Php 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
1Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
1Th 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
1Th 2:4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
1Th 2:8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.
1Th 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
1Th 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Ti 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
2Ti 2:8 ¶ Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
Phm 1:13 Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel:

Paul's gospel also included all the instruction for Christian living. Why? because the kingdom was not at hand any more so Christians needed to learn how to live as Followers of Christ. Because no one knows when his second coming will be.
Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? you see even his disciples knew he would have a second coming. they thought it would be soon that is why they had all things in common in Early acts period when God in his longsuffering was still trying to get Israel to accept their Messiah but by Acts 8 they rejected the fulness of God a third time. They rejected Jehovah in the OT, they rejected His son in Matthew-John, and they rejected the Holy Ghost in Acts 1-7

I would you suggest you stop reading the Bible with your flesh and allow the Holy Ghost to guide you by comparing spiritual things with spiritual. and rightly divide the word of truth as we are commanded. and remember the scriptures are from God via inspiration not of Paul or men.

Thank you for backing up my points!
This is halarious!
and btw...I caught the verses you omited in Acts that didn't follow your little agenda there.

[Chette]

all references to gospel before Act11 are references to the Kingdom Gospel of which the Apostles to the circumcisions preached.

My verse only support you points because you are seeking verse to falsely teach that the gospels are all one. But they equally support the doctrines held by the body of Christ.

By the way, Israel and her converts up unto Acts 8 were not part of the body of Christ. they had the spirit of God. But having the Holy Spirit is not equal to being placed in the Body of Christ.

[Silver07]

Wow. Now every time you contradict yourself you change your statements and agree. Amazing.

Now let's see how many more gospels we can add in the next 5 replies!

[slavedriven]

(04-25-2012 09:13 PM)Chette Wrote:  all references to gospel before Act11 are references to the Kingdom Gospel of which the Apostles to the circumcisions preached.

My verse only support you points because you are seeking verse to falsely teach that the gospels are all one. But they equally support the doctrines held by the body of Christ.

By the way, Israel and her converts up unto Acts 8 were not part of the body of Christ. they had the spirit of God. But having the Holy Spirit is not equal to being placed in the Body of Christ.

You keep telling yourself that. I'm sure it sounds good to you (at least I hope you can fool...err agree with yourself!).

I am astonished at the power of indoctrination... You are a living memorial.

[Chette]

(04-25-2012 09:47 PM)slavedriven Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 09:13 PM)Chette Wrote:  all references to gospel before Act11 are references to the Kingdom Gospel of which the Apostles to the circumcisions preached.

My verse only support you points because you are seeking verse to falsely teach that the gospels are all one. But they equally support the doctrines held by the body of Christ.

By the way, Israel and her converts up unto Acts 8 were not part of the body of Christ. they had the spirit of God. But having the Holy Spirit is not equal to being placed in the Body of Christ.

You keep telling yourself that. I'm sure it sounds good to you (at least I hope you can fool...err agree with yourself!).

I am astonished at the power of indoctrination... You are a living memorial.

My Indoctrination if from God's preserved word by inspiration not the doctrine of men as your indoctrination is.

you see the difference between you and mine Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Tit 2:1 ¶ But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

If you are going to speak as the oracles of God you need to speak with the word of God. that is what Jesus did, Paul did and I do.
1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

[slavedriven]

(04-25-2012 10:07 PM)Chette Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 09:47 PM)slavedriven Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 09:13 PM)Chette Wrote:  all references to gospel before Act11 are references to the Kingdom Gospel of which the Apostles to the circumcisions preached.

My verse only support you points because you are seeking verse to falsely teach that the gospels are all one. But they equally support the doctrines held by the body of Christ.

By the way, Israel and her converts up unto Acts 8 were not part of the body of Christ. they had the spirit of God. But having the Holy Spirit is not equal to being placed in the Body of Christ.

You keep telling yourself that. I'm sure it sounds good to you (at least I hope you can fool...err agree with yourself!).

I am astonished at the power of indoctrination... You are a living memorial.

My Indoctrination if from God's preserved word by inspiration not the doctrine of men as your indoctrination is.

you see the difference between you and mine Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Tit 2:1 ¶ But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

If you are going to speak as the oracles of God you need to speak with the word of God.

Why don't you cut out all your bible but the pauline letters? You don't need the rest you know...

I'm going to do you a favor...because I love you.

[slavedriven]

There you go...have yourself a Rood Awakening...haha

[Silver07]

(04-25-2012 10:07 PM)Chette Wrote:  My Indoctrination if from God's preserved word by inspiration not the doctrine of men as your indoctrination is.

My, Me, Mine, I...


Yawn.... All talk. Where are the testimonies at your church of people being healed, speaking in tongues, delivered from demons, dead being raised. Oh but you still say you have the ruach ha-kodesh.


Oh I forgot, it's all about YOU not them.

..and.. cue crickets