GOLDMONEY

[pawpaw1000]

Hey guys,

Recently opened an account with James Turks GoldMoney and wanted to get some thoughts on the safety of buying silver through them.

I have my silver stored in their Switzerland Vault as I live in Europe...

Thanks

[travis]

Can't say as I don't have an account but I always go by the worn out cliche' that if you don't hold it, you don't own it. I understand that due to some circumstances, various country laws and situations that may affect some people, this is the best option but it would not be my choice.

[Dom2012]

every single ounce i own i can get my hands on in under 10 minutes...... can you say the same ?! ...have you ever seen what you've purchased ?! .....does it even exist ??? ..... ;-) lol

[JoNYphi]

If you can't hold your gold and silver, you don't own it.

[daredevil75]

I agree with the "if you don't hold it you don't own it" philosophy to a great extent. My question is what does everyone here do if they want to invest money they may need to exchange back to fiat for expenses over the next 6 months to 2 years? Let's take an arbitrary sum like $35,000 dollars worth. The ease of exchange (near immediate bank wires) and low premiums 2.5% buy and spot to sell seem to make a compelling proposition. Also, geographic diversification if thats important to you.

[Dom2012]

i'd say if you're not able to, or, not willing to take delivery of your metals then maybe you shouldn't be investing on pm's lol

[PM Montner]

(05-31-2012 03:41 AM)pawpaw1000 Wrote:  Hey guys,

Recently opened an account with James Turks GoldMoney and wanted to get some thoughts on the safety of buying silver through them.

I have my silver stored in their Switzerland Vault as I live in Europe...

Thanks

I believe it's infinitely smarter than storing your wealth in a bank. Particularly in Europe. Are you required to pay VAT?

[Cointreau]

Paw Paw, I have about 230 oz in Goldmoney's swiss vault and 25 oz in Bullionvault's London vault.
The other hardbitten cynical PM investors on this forum have spooked me to the extent that I am now looking to build up my personal stash at home. To protect that investment I will shortly be acquiring my own vault. Perhaps £200 on a proper good safe.
As for Goldmoney, well I trust the integrity of the Swiss and they have their hard won reputation for safeguarding peoples' investments.
Ermm by the way, can one of you yanks send me a gun with ammo included? I'm really vulnerable here you know. I know that some of you are packing some pretty tasty deterrents, but what happens when you leave your homes? I guess you guys have got it all figured out though.

[Cointreau]

(05-31-2012 12:18 PM)PM Montner Wrote:  

(05-31-2012 03:41 AM)pawpaw1000 Wrote:  Hey guys,

Recently opened an account with James Turks GoldMoney and wanted to get some thoughts on the safety of buying silver through them.

I have my silver stored in their Switzerland Vault as I live in Europe...

Thanks

I believe it's infinitely smarter than storing your wealth in a bank. Particularly in Europe. Are you required to pay VAT?

No, you only pay VAT if you take possession of it and bring it back home.
You can sell your silver through Goldmoney and so you bypass having to pay VAT.

[97guns]

IF YOU DON'T HOLD IT YOU DON'T OWN IT. i don't care if it's Turk or not.

i saw an article about a large holding company that could not give its customers
the correct year bars. they all say your metal is allocated but is your metal really
sitting in a spot in the vault with your name on it?

that article made me think of my buddy when he wanted delivery of 2 monster box's of eagles that had been sitting in a a stored account, it was 1 unit each of 1997 and a 1998. he made the withdrawl online and waited but nothing happened for 1 week so he emailed them. the response was that they wanted to fill the order with 2011 eagles and that if he wanted the 1997 and 1998 box that it would be a 3 week lead time. he didn't ask why and it never crossed my mind until all this talk of the allocated gold bars.

[agsilverbear]

I heard a recent interview with James Turk where he related an experience of a customer who was moving his gold bars from another company to GoldMoney. James Turk said that the customer's bars that were transferred, which had supposedly been allocated for seven or so years, were minted in 2011! I trust the integrity of James Turk's organization, I believe that he really has the metals, and they are truly allocated, sitting there in the warehouse under the customer's name. But I don't trust that some governments will not confiscate at least some allocated accounts. It might depend on which country they're held in as to how safe they are. I vote for Hong Kong.

James Turk said that it is best to hold your metal yourself. His service is primarily for those who can't, or choose not to for one reason or another. For instance, the very wealthy can't and shouldn't bury all of their gold and silver under their shed, it's not feasible and it's more risky than holding it in vaults somewhere. Some people want to hold it outside of their government jurisdiction for good reason. Some want the liquidity they provide to move into and out of gold, silver, cash... It's not a one-size fits all decision. It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

[Matt d]

Thanks for this thread. I've recently looked into Goldmoney and I probaly would have started a thread like this if this wasn't here. When it comes right down to it I don't think I will be using this service although I do think it would work well for certain people.

I like the liquidity, no shipping costs, never have to find a buyer and re-ship the metal. That being said, the storage costs would probably bug me. For example, ~33 ounces of silver would cost .2 oz/month to store. It would cost you 2.4 of the 33 ounces over the course of a year. Not sure what to think about that.

I do also vote Hong Kong, forget Europe.

[AgShaman]

I don't think GoldMoney is the viable option for alot of investors. I think it's more of an exclusive option for larger fish. From what I can remember....you can't take delivery of your silver unless you are buying and storing more than 30k oz's. That's alot of #47. Aside from that...I don't think you can take delivery unless you are in a small set of countries....meaning, there's a short list of places GoldMoney will deliver the silver to....and if you want it somewhere else...you'll probably have to pick it up in person and physically move it on your own.

For me....the 30,000 ounces required for consideration of the "taking delivery" option makes it even worse than the Comex. I'd rather take a contract on the CME's casino for 5k oz's and work on getting it filled vs. knowing I'm buying metal that will never be settled in anything other than "fiat credits".

Maybe I've got the nyumbers wrong....but they're stuck in my mind for some reason.

Become your own bank...."Stash n Stockpile Weapons of Stack Construction!"

[agsilverbear]

AgShaman, I see what you mean. It would be only for the big fish, indeed.

[AgShaman]

(06-01-2012 10:18 PM)agsilverbear Wrote:  AgShaman, I see what you mean. It would be only for the big fish, indeed.

Another problem with GoldMoney is secrecy.

Gold and silver are viewed as collectibles....not money. When you convert them into fiats....you are back to entering into the "hidden contract" that few ever notice in their lifetimes. The govt....and it's quasi govt. subsidiary in the FED....via their thugs at the IRS, will be expecting their "tribute"....or 'cut' of your pie. I doubt GoldMoney will be able to insulate you from this reality.

Gold and silver are money. The govt. does not share this sentiment. Until RP's movement takes hold and bears fruit....places like GoldMoney will be a tax liability for smaller investors.

Become your own bank..."Stash n Stockpile Weapons of Stack Construction!"

[funkyronster]

I have accounts with both GM and BV. For personal reasons I just can't handle physical, although I will one day soon.

It's all down to your attitude to risk, and what the you think the "endgame" will be.

My assumptions are as follows.

After research, GM and BV seem to be well respected and popular.

Yes the govts may try to grab the gold, but I can't see it happening out of the blue.

More likely are problems with the banking system - you need the banks to transfer fiat into and out of the services. So you could end up with GM and BV holding your metal, quite honestly, but you can't convert.

So it begs the question that GLD and SLV, who everybody hate, but everybody uses (!) are no better or worse - for temporary exposure to the PM market, as long as the system holds up.

Anybody with a decent brain should see the writing on the wall, and know when only physical will do - and of course this will be the point at which the price explodes!

My fear with physical isn't so much with security, but that in a post fiat crash situation, having come through it with a stash of gold and silver, those people who have it, will stand out like a sore thumb and attract all sorts of attention.

But in the meantime - I reckon GM and BV are OK. BV is cheaper.

[agsilverbear]

(06-04-2012 03:12 AM)funkyronster Wrote:  I have accounts with both GM and BV. For personal reasons I just can't handle physical, although I will one day soon.

It's all down to your attitude to risk, and what the you think the "endgame" will be.

My assumptions are as follows.

After research, GM and BV seem to be well respected and popular.

Yes the govts may try to grab the gold, but I can't see it happening out of the blue.

More likely are problems with the banking system - you need the banks to transfer fiat into and out of the services. So you could end up with GM and BV holding your metal, quite honestly, but you can't convert.

So it begs the question that GLD and SLV, who everybody hate, but everybody uses (!) are no better or worse - for temporary exposure to the PM market, as long as the system holds up.

Anybody with a decent brain should see the writing on the wall, and know when only physical will do - and of course this will be the point at which the price explodes!

My fear with physical isn't so much with security, but that in a post fiat crash situation, having come through it with a stash of gold and silver, those people who have it, will stand out like a sore thumb and attract all sorts of attention.

But in the meantime - I reckon GM and BV are OK. BV is cheaper.

Quote:those people who have it, will stand out like a sore thumb and attract all sorts of attention.

Gold and silver will not be very useful in a WROL scenario where no economy exists. You have to wait until some kind of law and order returns, and an economy is present, before gold and silver will do you any good.

[kshymkiw]

(05-31-2012 03:41 AM)pawpaw1000 Wrote:  Hey guys,

Recently opened an account with James Turks GoldMoney and wanted to get some thoughts on the safety of buying silver through them.

I have my silver stored in their Switzerland Vault as I live in Europe...

Thanks

My feelings on him, and his business model.

Does it make sense for some, sure. Does it make sense for all, not really.

My issues with their business model, is this. I can't easily place my hands on the metal. I have to go through a process by which I request it be sent to me. If I can't touch, it doesn't have liquidity.

[kshymkiw]

(06-04-2012 11:54 PM)agsilverbear Wrote:  

(06-04-2012 03:12 AM)funkyronster Wrote:  I have accounts with both GM and BV. For personal reasons I just can't handle physical, although I will one day soon.

It's all down to your attitude to risk, and what the you think the "endgame" will be.

My assumptions are as follows.

After research, GM and BV seem to be well respected and popular.

Yes the govts may try to grab the gold, but I can't see it happening out of the blue.

More likely are problems with the banking system - you need the banks to transfer fiat into and out of the services. So you could end up with GM and BV holding your metal, quite honestly, but you can't convert.

So it begs the question that GLD and SLV, who everybody hate, but everybody uses (!) are no better or worse - for temporary exposure to the PM market, as long as the system holds up.

Anybody with a decent brain should see the writing on the wall, and know when only physical will do - and of course this will be the point at which the price explodes!

My fear with physical isn't so much with security, but that in a post fiat crash situation, having come through it with a stash of gold and silver, those people who have it, will stand out like a sore thumb and attract all sorts of attention.

But in the meantime - I reckon GM and BV are OK. BV is cheaper.

Quote:those people who have it, will stand out like a sore thumb and attract all sorts of attention.

Gold and silver will not be very useful in a WROL scenario where no economy exists. You have to wait until some kind of law and order returns, and an economy is present, before gold and silver will do you any good.

I disagree. Gold, Silver, and Goods will be the currency. In that scenario you would take Gold or Silver as payment for Goods/Services, as you know when order and a currency does return, you will be cashing in your Gold/Silver for lots of money.

[agsilverbear]

(06-05-2012 11:26 AM)kshymkiw Wrote:  

(06-04-2012 11:54 PM)agsilverbear Wrote:  

(06-04-2012 03:12 AM)funkyronster Wrote:  I have accounts with both GM and BV. For personal reasons I just can't handle physical, although I will one day soon.

It's all down to your attitude to risk, and what the you think the "endgame" will be.

My assumptions are as follows.

After research, GM and BV seem to be well respected and popular.

Yes the govts may try to grab the gold, but I can't see it happening out of the blue.

More likely are problems with the banking system - you need the banks to transfer fiat into and out of the services. So you could end up with GM and BV holding your metal, quite honestly, but you can't convert.

So it begs the question that GLD and SLV, who everybody hate, but everybody uses (!) are no better or worse - for temporary exposure to the PM market, as long as the system holds up.

Anybody with a decent brain should see the writing on the wall, and know when only physical will do - and of course this will be the point at which the price explodes!

My fear with physical isn't so much with security, but that in a post fiat crash situation, having come through it with a stash of gold and silver, those people who have it, will stand out like a sore thumb and attract all sorts of attention.

But in the meantime - I reckon GM and BV are OK. BV is cheaper.

Quote:those people who have it, will stand out like a sore thumb and attract all sorts of attention.

Gold and silver will not be very useful in a WROL scenario where no economy exists. You have to wait until some kind of law and order returns, and an economy is present, before gold and silver will do you any good.

I disagree. Gold, Silver, and Goods will be the currency. In that scenario you would take Gold or Silver as payment for Goods/Services, as you know when order and a currency does return, you will be cashing in your Gold/Silver for lots of money.

Without law and order, whether it is imposed by government or groups of private individuals, markets cannot exist. You can't conduct trade under the law of the jungle. People will just take what you have. But a state of complete chaos and lawlessness can't exist indefinitely. The ability to trade with any degree of safety is contingent upon the degree of order that is established. As order begins to return an economy also returns.

[kshymkiw]

(06-05-2012 07:27 PM)agsilverbear Wrote:  

(06-05-2012 11:26 AM)kshymkiw Wrote:  

(06-04-2012 11:54 PM)agsilverbear Wrote:  

(06-04-2012 03:12 AM)funkyronster Wrote:  I have accounts with both GM and BV. For personal reasons I just can't handle physical, although I will one day soon.

It's all down to your attitude to risk, and what the you think the "endgame" will be.

My assumptions are as follows.

After research, GM and BV seem to be well respected and popular.

Yes the govts may try to grab the gold, but I can't see it happening out of the blue.

More likely are problems with the banking system - you need the banks to transfer fiat into and out of the services. So you could end up with GM and BV holding your metal, quite honestly, but you can't convert.

So it begs the question that GLD and SLV, who everybody hate, but everybody uses (!) are no better or worse - for temporary exposure to the PM market, as long as the system holds up.

Anybody with a decent brain should see the writing on the wall, and know when only physical will do - and of course this will be the point at which the price explodes!

My fear with physical isn't so much with security, but that in a post fiat crash situation, having come through it with a stash of gold and silver, those people who have it, will stand out like a sore thumb and attract all sorts of attention.

But in the meantime - I reckon GM and BV are OK. BV is cheaper.

Quote:those people who have it, will stand out like a sore thumb and attract all sorts of attention.

Gold and silver will not be very useful in a WROL scenario where no economy exists. You have to wait until some kind of law and order returns, and an economy is present, before gold and silver will do you any good.

I disagree. Gold, Silver, and Goods will be the currency. In that scenario you would take Gold or Silver as payment for Goods/Services, as you know when order and a currency does return, you will be cashing in your Gold/Silver for lots of money.

Without law and order, whether it is imposed by government or groups of private individuals, markets cannot exist. You can't conduct trade under the law of the jungle. People will just take what you have. But a state of complete chaos and lawlessness can't exist indefinitely. The ability to trade with any degree of safety is contingent upon the degree of order that is established. As order begins to return an economy also returns.

So how do you think people traded in the past? Government and Economy aren't needed to exchange Silver and Gold as currency.

[agsilverbear]

(06-06-2012 05:19 PM)kshymkiw Wrote:  

(06-05-2012 07:27 PM)agsilverbear Wrote:  

(06-05-2012 11:26 AM)kshymkiw Wrote:  

(06-04-2012 11:54 PM)agsilverbear Wrote:  

(06-04-2012 03:12 AM)funkyronster Wrote:  I have accounts with both GM and BV. For personal reasons I just can't handle physical, although I will one day soon.

It's all down to your attitude to risk, and what the you think the "endgame" will be.

My assumptions are as follows.

After research, GM and BV seem to be well respected and popular.

Yes the govts may try to grab the gold, but I can't see it happening out of the blue.

More likely are problems with the banking system - you need the banks to transfer fiat into and out of the services. So you could end up with GM and BV holding your metal, quite honestly, but you can't convert.

So it begs the question that GLD and SLV, who everybody hate, but everybody uses (!) are no better or worse - for temporary exposure to the PM market, as long as the system holds up.

Anybody with a decent brain should see the writing on the wall, and know when only physical will do - and of course this will be the point at which the price explodes!

My fear with physical isn't so much with security, but that in a post fiat crash situation, having come through it with a stash of gold and silver, those people who have it, will stand out like a sore thumb and attract all sorts of attention.

But in the meantime - I reckon GM and BV are OK. BV is cheaper.

Quote:those people who have it, will stand out like a sore thumb and attract all sorts of attention.

Gold and silver will not be very useful in a WROL scenario where no economy exists. You have to wait until some kind of law and order returns, and an economy is present, before gold and silver will do you any good.

I disagree. Gold, Silver, and Goods will be the currency. In that scenario you would take Gold or Silver as payment for Goods/Services, as you know when order and a currency does return, you will be cashing in your Gold/Silver for lots of money.

Without law and order, whether it is imposed by government or groups of private individuals, markets cannot exist. You can't conduct trade under the law of the jungle. People will just take what you have. But a state of complete chaos and lawlessness can't exist indefinitely. The ability to trade with any degree of safety is contingent upon the degree of order that is established. As order begins to return an economy also returns.

So how do you think people traded in the past? Government and Economy aren't needed to exchange Silver and Gold as currency.

I meant in my initial comment to Funkyronster that gold and silver will be valuable when we come out the other side of whatever chaos comes when the current global monetary system implodes. It's happened before before but never to the entire world at the same time, so no one really knows what's going to happen. What I'm saying is that during a WROL (without rule of law) situation where even leaving your home is dangerous because of hungry, desperate people who are willing to rob and kill you for anything you might be carrying on you. In such a scenario the furthest thing from people's minds is gold and silver. They are solely interested in obtaining the basic necessities of life, whether by theft or barter, without being killed. This is where a barter economy comes about. Complete collapse of infrastructure, international trade, race wars, siege and occupation could all bring about a barter economy. They never last, order is eventually reestablished, people begin to buy and sell using a common currency. After the current system dies then I believe that the average American will view gold and silver as money.

I'm not saying that America will end up in a WROL scenario, I'm only saying that if it does then gold and silver will not be useful for a time. Whatever happens TPTB have no choice, once this house of cards falls all currencies will have to be backed by gold (and silver).

[Cointreau]

We have a big Euromillions draw this friday in excess of £100 million.
Question: If you won a lottery of this size, where would you allocate the funds?
Would you keep it all in fiat currency? Probably not. Personally I would want a lot of it in real estate, and a big slice of it in precious metals. But you couldn't keep all that metal in your stately homes therefore you would have to keep a lot of it in bullion vaults, would you not? Can you see the point I am trying to make?

[SilverFalcon]

I've used Goldmoney in the past and was happy with their service and you can order physical Goldmoney bars I believe although there may be a period of waiting. I've also purchased palladium and platinum with them in small quantities. I've also used Bullionvault, but more as a trading account as the commision rates are some of the lowest on the market. I think a good mix of physical bullion at home and some of your holding stored with Goldmoney, Bullionvault or some other company is a good way to spread the risk.