Fractional Reserve and silver as viable medium of exchange

[centexn]

Hello...

Newbie here to the forum but have been following the argument for silver since I became aware of Ron Paul and his indictment of the Fed. A writer who has influenced me with an analysis of the origin of money concentrating on the evolution of fiat currency, is Bill Still. Some of you may remember, he is the gentlemen responsible for two comprehensive documentaries, The Money Masters, and, The Secrets of Oz.

In one of his latest interviews with Max Kaiser (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGEPqe7DwLc), he takes Ron Paul to task in asserting that no matter what the basis for currency...gold..silver, paper, digital....the main culprit in the devaluation of the dollar and its purchasing power, is the fractional reserve requirement which has been allowed to run amok without real accountability or oversight. Mr. Paul's position the way out of our issues is to re-establish the gold standard for our currency. I hope everyone will take the time to investigate Still's opinion as it is much better expressed in the interview. As investment vehicles, Mr. Still recognizes both gold and silver as a store of value but sees no validity returning to the gold standard for our currency.

Please forgive my incomplete report. The details are complex and controversial. I still want to invest in silver but I also want our country to get back on the right track financially. If silver is part of that process, all the better. Please no more rabbit trails.

Respectfully

Centexn

[slow to learn]

Centexn, I agree, thoughout history there has been fractional banking from the money changers to the central banks. So this is not a new idea, but this said the elites of the central banks have redefined the concept! Anyway it hasnt mattered regaudless if we were on a gold or silver standard the fractional banking continues! It is the fact that money is debt that is the problem! We could have a system of fiat currency and if that fiat currency was debt free it would lead the nation to prosperity! I dont know why Ron Paul is so consistant on a gold or silver standard? The fact is if the central banks attach debt to or currency we will never be free we will only have an allusion of freedom! Even with a gold or silver standard! Abrham Lincolns greeback was a fiat currency but it was printed by our treasury debt free! That why Lincoln was killed and the greenback pulled from circulation and the bank notes re- issued!

[cosmyccowboy]

maybe im missing something but the reason ron paul supports gold and silver as money, well let me change that... 6000 years of history support that gold and silver are money and in fact only gold and silver are money! but the main reason is that they cannot create gold and silver with a click in a banks account thereby inflating the amount of currency they have at will and that would be the reason the good doctor wants a return to sound money!? he would trust no one, no mortal could resist the power that fiat currency gives them wiht it's creation out of thin air! money, true money is a store of valule not debt!

[slow to learn]

(03-26-2012 08:39 PM)cosmyccowboy Wrote:  maybe im missing something but the reason ron paul supports gold and silver as money, well let me change that... 6000 years of history support that gold and silver are money and in fact only gold and silver are money! but the main reason is that they cannot create gold and silver with a click in a banks account thereby inflating the amount of currency they have at will and that would be the reason the good doctor wants a return to sound money!? he would trust no one, no mortal could resist the power that fiat currency gives them wiht it's creation out of thin air! money, true money is a store of valule not debt!

I humbly disagree, Im not agaist a gold or silver standard but that alone is not the answer! Even with a gold or silver standard as long as a privatly owned central bank issues its notes attached with debt we will be subjected to inflationary and deflationary economic cycles created to embezzle wealth from the nation it is supposed to stabilize.

Even in ancient history the tally stick was use as currency and was one of the most successful forms of currecy in all history that lasted almost 800 years! The tally stick had no gold or silver reserves, what made it a success was durring that time they eliminated the money changers. In moderen day the money changers are the central banks!

So it doesnt matter if there is a gold or silver standard as long as we allow the central banks to control our monetary policies, the problem continues! This is what bothers me about Ron Paul, I feel he is much to easy on the central banks! We need a Thomas Jefferson or an Andrew Jackson that isnt afraid of the central banks and will meet them head on! I would vote for Ron Paul because he is our only choice but not sure if he is even trust worthy! We need to bring our military home and use them to march on and dismantal every central bank in this nation , taking them to ground level. Then erect a monument in its place reminding people of how they enslaved and stole the weath of the nation for 100's of years!

[Dudesome]

Slow2Learn
I understand what you mean
I had the same view on RP untill the recent past. What changed my mind was grasping RP's plan

His plan is to eliminate the FED. In reality its all we need. The other CBs will fall shortly after.

Now you say there's all that debt etc...
All we need is a default for debt to disapear.


I for one am against classical gold standart where gooberment sets a fixed price upon pms. I like many here realize that gold and silver is money and it's up to free market to decide its price and value.


BTw your spelling is a lot of fun

[slow to learn]

(03-26-2012 11:20 PM)Dudesome Wrote:  Slow2Learn
I understand what you mean
I had the same view on RP untill the recent past. What changed my mind was grasping RP's plan

His plan is to eliminate the FED. In reality its all we need. The other CBs will fall shortly after.

Now you say there's all that debt etc...
All we need is a default for debt to disapear.


I for one am against classical gold standart where gooberment sets a fixed price upon pms. I like many here realize that gold and silver is money and it's up to free market to decide its price and value.


BTw your spelling is a lot of fun

I know, my spelling is very very bad! It is not my strong point FOR SURE! LOL!

[cosmyccowboy]

(03-26-2012 10:23 PM)slow to learn Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 08:39 PM)cosmyccowboy Wrote:  maybe im missing something but the reason ron paul supports gold and silver as money, well let me change that... 6000 years of history support that gold and silver are money and in fact only gold and silver are money! but the main reason is that they cannot create gold and silver with a click in a banks account thereby inflating the amount of currency they have at will and that would be the reason the good doctor wants a return to sound money!? he would trust no one, no mortal could resist the power that fiat currency gives them wiht it's creation out of thin air! money, true money is a store of valule not debt!

I humbly disagree, Im not agaist a gold or silver standard but that alone is not the answer! Even with a gold or silver standard as long as a privatly owned central bank issues its notes attached with debt we will be subjected to inflationary and deflationary economic cycles created to embezzle wealth from the nation it is supposed to stabilize.

Even in ancient history the tally stick was use as currency and was one of the most successful forms of currecy in all history that lasted almost 800 years! The tally stick had no gold or silver reserves, what made it a success was durring that time they eliminated the money changers. In moderen day the money changers are the central banks!

So it doesnt matter if there is a gold or silver standard as long as we allow the central banks to control our monetary policies, the problem continues! This is what bothers me about Ron Paul, I feel he is much to easy on the central banks! We need a Thomas Jefferson or an Andrew Jackson that isnt afraid of the central banks and will meet them head on! I would vote for Ron Paul because he is our only choice but not sure if he is even trust worthy! We need to bring our military home and use them to march on and dismantal every central bank in this nation , taking them to ground level. Then erect a monument in its place reminding people of how they enslaved and stole the weath of the nation for 100's of years!

of course, none of them is trustworthy! not me, not you or anyone else for that matter! thats why the only thing that is beyond them is a pure gold and silver with competing mints! not a gold or silver stand... i dont what the price of anything being set by the goverment!

[slow to learn]

(03-27-2012 11:01 AM)cosmyccowboy Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 10:23 PM)slow to learn Wrote:  

(03-26-2012 08:39 PM)cosmyccowboy Wrote:  maybe im missing something but the reason ron paul supports gold and silver as money, well let me change that... 6000 years of history support that gold and silver are money and in fact only gold and silver are money! but the main reason is that they cannot create gold and silver with a click in a banks account thereby inflating the amount of currency they have at will and that would be the reason the good doctor wants a return to sound money!? he would trust no one, no mortal could resist the power that fiat currency gives them wiht it's creation out of thin air! money, true money is a store of valule not debt!

I humbly disagree, Im not agaist a gold or silver standard but that alone is not the answer! Even with a gold or silver standard as long as a privatly owned central bank issues its notes attached with debt we will be subjected to inflationary and deflationary economic cycles created to embezzle wealth from the nation it is supposed to stabilize.

Even in ancient history the tally stick was use as currency and was one of the most successful forms of currecy in all history that lasted almost 800 years! The tally stick had no gold or silver reserves, what made it a success was durring that time they eliminated the money changers. In moderen day the money changers are the central banks!

So it doesnt matter if there is a gold or silver standard as long as we allow the central banks to control our monetary policies, the problem continues! This is what bothers me about Ron Paul, I feel he is much to easy on the central banks! We need a Thomas Jefferson or an Andrew Jackson that isnt afraid of the central banks and will meet them head on! I would vote for Ron Paul because he is our only choice but not sure if he is even trust worthy! We need to bring our military home and use them to march on and dismantal every central bank in this nation , taking them to ground level. Then erect a monument in its place reminding people of how they enslaved and stole the weath of the nation for 100's of years!

of course, none of them is trustworthy! not me, not you or anyone else for that matter! thats why the only thing that is beyond them is a pure gold and silver with competing mints! not a gold or silver stand... i dont what the price of anything being set by the goverment!

I understand, your not talking about a gold or silver standard. Your talking gold and silver as money with no other paper assets? That would be great but with the lack of the metals the price would really have to be ajusted! And how would we get the gold that the central banks have stolen back into the treasery? Maybe we could confiscate it just before we burn them to the ground! Is this what Ron Paul is sujesting gold and silver as money and not a gold and silver standard? If this is the case I misunderstood the man!

[AgShaman]

This is the fallacy that's been born by the brainwashing provided by the American public school system.

You are taught to be mass consumer debt slaves....woefully ignorant, subservient, and satiated within your serfdom.

The fiat currency is being "managed"...in it's relationship with gold and silver...is in essence, the equivalent of talking the serfs out of pulling back the curtains on the wizards ponzi machine.

If they can stairstep the rises incrementally...by suppressing the metals thru manipulation....it acts like the boiling frog dynamic...until our Central Planning/Banking masters are ready to usher in the last Black Swan. They intend to stretch the rubber-band....so when the serfs reach 'maximum potential', and have no more blood to be extracted....they can wipe out the construct...and roll out the new and improved system they've been patiently waiting to implement. The Central Bankers fully intend to kill all fiat currencies...if they didn't, gold and silver would've already adjusted to reflect the expansion of the fiat money supply...which is by definition, "inflation". If gold were triple the price and silver was $300 bucks an ounce....the monopoly on their "human farming" and control of their serfs would be in serious jeopardy.

As it stands right now...the FED is purchasing worthless derivatives debts like Euro bonds...and adding them onto their balance sheet...to funnel them later to the taxpayer....who's entire existence is reflected in performing the function of "Bagholder".

Ron Pauls solution is to simply end the madness of ballooning these credit derivatives that serve no purpose besides drawing wealth from the people producing like pensioners....and redistributing it to a handful of their TBTF elitist syndicate oligarch buddies.

Bi-metallism and gold standards are not perfect systems....but just systems that don't provide the swamplike breeding ground for banking parasites to manipulate the economy thru worthless credit vehicles that exhibit only one set of tracks that lead to an over the cliff endgame. These bankers are parasites...that don't produce anything besides casino games designed to rob the proletariat of their wealth and labor. Sure...it would mean a simpler existence...where barter trade would most likely be involved...and people would have less govt. handouts provided for by the producers in their ranks. That's a more fair sytem than we have currently....where millions have learned how to de-fraud their fellow citizen with the forever suckling at the govt. teet. Society throughout history has supplied an abundance of lazy people....and in this new millenium...there's an over-abundance....not even remotely possible to sustain.

Your politicians are bought and paid for actors....put in place to 'pat' you on the head and give you promises that will never be kept. It's the "Left/Right Paradigm Fraud" that people cannot focus on. The marriage of corruption between the politicos, bankers, and propaganda media outlets is to "keep the calm" and manage the perspective....until they can roll out the next crisis. They've been running this Hegellian Dialectic scam on the serfs for centuries.

This time will be no different....unless the masses could see how dire the situation is...and how there's one politician that cannot be corrupted...and bent to the will of the Syndicate's bankers. The Ron Paul camp is just a bit too naive....and tactically inferior. They don't understand how their enemy works...so coming up with viable solutions is nearly impossible for them. I wish them luck and am supportive to their cause...but they are all too willing to show up to a gunfight...brandishing a knife.

Become your own bank..."Stash n Stockpile Weapons of Stack Construction!"

[KYnyts]

RP is too easy on the Fed? :::thud::: He wants to audit it, stop its enabling of Congress (who can't seem to control their spending), fire Bernanke and get rid of the Fed completely. He takes Bernanke to task every time he sees him...lol. Have you read his book, "End the Fed"? Your argument about debt based currency is the same exact argument RP makes.

I understand what you are saying about trust. It is REALLY hard when everything we are told turns out to be a lie or spin at best. I do trust Ron Paul, though, because he has proven himself over decades. When even colleagues who do NOT like him state that he is incorruptible, and stories abound about lobbyists not even bothering to ask him to support their issues anymore, that tells me he is a man of solid character. I truly admire Dr. Paul, and my heart aches that he has stood alone for so long and been ostracized for trying to protect this country and the liberties it has stood for.

[AgShaman]

(03-27-2012 12:30 PM)KYnyts Wrote:  RP is too easy on the Fed? :::thud::: He wants to audit it, stop its enabling of Congress (who can't seem to control their spending), fire Bernanke and get rid of the Fed completely. He takes Bernanke to task every time he sees him...lol. Have you read his book, "End the Fed"? Your argument about debt based currency is the same exact argument RP makes.

I understand what you are saying about trust. It is REALLY hard when everything we are told turns out to be a lie or spin at best. I do trust Ron Paul, though, because he has proven himself over decades. When even colleagues who do NOT like him state that he is incorruptible, and stories abound about lobbyists not even bothering to ask him to support their issues anymore, that tells me he is a man of solid character. I truly admire Dr. Paul, and my heart aches that he has stood alone for so long and been ostracized for trying to protect this country and the liberties it has stood for.

Nowhere in my post did I intimate that RP is too easy on the FED.

You should probably re-read it and not misconstrue its content.

It's the RP followers that don't have a clue....they are tactically inferior.

I hope they succeed....but I have my doubts

[slow to learn]

(03-27-2012 12:44 PM)AgShaman Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 12:30 PM)KYnyts Wrote:  RP is too easy on the Fed? :::thud::: He wants to audit it, stop its enabling of Congress (who can't seem to control their spending), fire Bernanke and get rid of the Fed completely. He takes Bernanke to task every time he sees him...lol. Have you read his book, "End the Fed"? Your argument about debt based currency is the same exact argument RP makes.

I understand what you are saying about trust. It is REALLY hard when everything we are told turns out to be a lie or spin at best. I do trust Ron Paul, though, because he has proven himself over decades. When even colleagues who do NOT like him state that he is incorruptible, and stories abound about lobbyists not even bothering to ask him to support their issues anymore, that tells me he is a man of solid character. I truly admire Dr. Paul, and my heart aches that he has stood alone for so long and been ostracized for trying to protect this country and the liberties it has stood for.

Nowhere in my post did I intimate that RP is too easy on the FED.

You should probably re-read it and not misconstrue its content.

It's the RP followers that don't have a clue....they are tactically inferior.

I hope they succeed....but I have my doubts

AgShman, KYnytes was taking to me! I felt that RP was to easy on the Fed, but I realize he also is trying to win an election and most have no idea how the central banks enslave the world though debt!

I loved your post above and really cant disagree with anything you said! You have a great understanding of the central banking system and have the brains to be able to convey it to others! Thanks!

[AgShaman]

(03-27-2012 01:38 PM)slow to learn Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 12:44 PM)AgShaman Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 12:30 PM)KYnyts Wrote:  RP is too easy on the Fed? :::thud::: He wants to audit it, stop its enabling of Congress (who can't seem to control their spending), fire Bernanke and get rid of the Fed completely. He takes Bernanke to task every time he sees him...lol. Have you read his book, "End the Fed"? Your argument about debt based currency is the same exact argument RP makes.

I understand what you are saying about trust. It is REALLY hard when everything we are told turns out to be a lie or spin at best. I do trust Ron Paul, though, because he has proven himself over decades. When even colleagues who do NOT like him state that he is incorruptible, and stories abound about lobbyists not even bothering to ask him to support their issues anymore, that tells me he is a man of solid character. I truly admire Dr. Paul, and my heart aches that he has stood alone for so long and been ostracized for trying to protect this country and the liberties it has stood for.

Nowhere in my post did I intimate that RP is too easy on the FED.

You should probably re-read it and not misconstrue its content.

It's the RP followers that don't have a clue....they are tactically inferior.

I hope they succeed....but I have my doubts

AgShman, KYnytes was taking to me! I felt that RP was to easy on the Fed, but I realize he also is trying to win an election and most have no idea how the central banks enslave the world though debt!

I loved your post above and really cant disagree with anything you said! You have a great understanding of the central banking system and have the brains to be able to convey it to others! Thanks!

"My Bad".....I'm sorry for the mistake

My apologies to KYnyts[b]

I thought the comments were meant for me.

It's a good subject though....and worthy of discussion from people interested in formulating solutions.

I try not to get too wrapped up in nitpicking the opinions and policies of Ron Paul....cuz that's what the media wants....to deflect from the election fraud taking place in the political process. It's key for them to propagate the notion that the "Proles" have a choice in all this....which is a pure illusory concept. Presidents are selected...not elected....the fraud you are witnessing these past months at the GOP caucus' is the "give-away". Even the other day when Obama had a slip of the tongue....the masses could not process the information properly....they were funneled into the debate of how 'cozy' is the presidents relationship with Medvedev....instead of focusing on what's hidden, in plain sight. The tone of his voice...in assuring the Russian prez...speaks to how the retention of the power base in D.C. is a foregone conclusion. One could go so far as to say Obama has all the same 'handlers' and behind the scenes components as Bush Sr.

We don't live in a free country....our presidents are groomed years in advance...at secret meetings run by psychopaths with worldly domination as their agenda.

If people want to end the tyranny....they not only need to think outside the box and not get suckered into left/right paradigm debates...but they must engineer solutions born from the "outside the box" thinking.

"Enlightenment...is the unbiased cognition of tyranny...in all it's forms." -AgShaman

sorry for the bold print (trying to highlight KYnyts' forum handle

[slow to learn]

''Presidents are selected...not elected''

This is so true, I have an uncle that was the deputy chairman of the Republican National Committee in past years. I talk to him about all of this. He said somthing that really scared me about 3 months ago. He said dont be suprized if there isnt a Presidental election this yaer! I ask how this would come about and he said all that would have to happen is a catastrophic event to put the nation into a state of emergency or martial law!

He has been out of the political arena for quit some time now but stranger things have happened!

It really donesnt matter what party you vote for they are the same. The conflict between the parties is a vale to detract peoples attention from the fraud that is being commited buy the elite central bankers! There is only one party and it is there party! And guess what we are not invited!

[Dudesome]

(03-27-2012 03:35 PM)slow to learn Wrote:  ''Presidents are selected...not elected''

This is so true, I have an uncle that was the deputy chairman of the Republican National Committee in past years. I talk to him about all of this. He said somthing that really scared me about 3 months ago. He said dont be suprized if there isnt a Presidental election this yaer! I ask how this would come about and he said all that would have to happen is a catastrophic event to put the nation into a state of emergency or martial law!

He has been out of the political arena for quit some time now but stranger things have happened!

It really donesnt matter what party you vote for they are the same. The conflict between the parties is a vale to detract peoples attention from the fraud that is being commited buy the elite central bankers! There is only one party and it is there party! And guess what we are not invited!

wow that's some scary shit ur uncle's sayin hope it has nothing to do with the annunaki aliens and nibiru planet

[AgShaman]

(03-27-2012 03:35 PM)slow to learn Wrote:  ''Presidents are selected...not elected''

This is so true, I have an uncle that was the deputy chairman of the Republican National Committee in past years. I talk to him about all of this. He said somthing that really scared me about 3 months ago. He said dont be suprized if there isnt a Presidental election this yaer! I ask how this would come about and he said all that would have to happen is a catastrophic event to put the nation into a state of emergency or martial law!

He has been out of the political arena for quit some time now but stranger things have happened!

It really donesnt matter what party you vote for they are the same. The conflict between the parties is a vale to detract peoples attention from the fraud that is being commited buy the elite central bankers! There is only one party and it is there party! And guess what we are not invited!

Big money is fleeing the country in droves.

Hundreds of banking executives are tendering their final notice and quiting their jobs in the banking sector.

And more states are following the model set forth by the state of Utah

http://www.thestate.com/2012/03/27/22102...er-as.html

People are jockeying and positioning themselves due to their survival instincts....they sense that the trouble brewing is not being fixed...and worse, not even being addressed.

Rome's dwindling and fall was a slower process than people know. They debased their monetary system for quite awhile during their Empire's methodical march to irrelevence.

My guess is the American Empire will follow a similar path...though it will appear to be a more violent and sudden implosion due to the ability of the govt. and the FED parasite to keep people dumbed down and in the dark.....as sheep waiting for the slaughter.

When history is written about how it all unfolded....provided it continues to devolve into collapse....it will show that the process had started many years before....and the USA's empire incrementally stairstepped it's way along a similar path like the British Empire as well as the Roman Empire. Not exact in timelines....but not an overnight event either.

The FED has had nearly 100 years to suck the lifeblood here....but the moneychangers have been doing it for centuries.

As long as the serfs refuse to educate themselves about the scams being run on them....there's always another construct built to enrich an elite few....off the backs and labor of the masses.

Become your own bank..."Stash n Stockpile Weapons of Stack Construction!"