Faith - is it universal?

[kshymkiw]

Another question for those of faith on this forum, since I am not a person of faith.

Last night I went to a "meeting" service at the local Kingdom Hall. Our neighbours are members there, and they convinced my wife to try it out. So being the supportive husband that I am, I went with her to meet all these new people in her life, and to check out the service. Let me say one thing, I am NOT and will NEVER be a person of faith. This isn't for a lack of listening, reading, or attending service. It is something I don't believe in, period.

While sitting there listening to the people talk, and discuss the verses that were read, I heard a lot of people say things like "it shows you have to have faith" or "faith is there" or just things about faith in general, which led me down an interesting thought last night, and it has continued on this morning.

So my question is this. If someone is of faith, and has faith in a religious book/denomination/service/whatever does that mean said person also needs to let faith guide them on other decisions in life? Essentially is faith universal across a person, or can a person have faith in religion, but lack faith on other items?

[harbl_the_cat]

Early on before I became a Christ follower, I realized how much faith I had in pretty much everything.

I'm educated as an engineer, but much of that education is based on faith that the scientific postulations of men who died hundreds of years ago are correct. So far as I can observe through empirical study, analysis and experimentation they are. HOWEVER the extent to which I or anyone alive can physically verify such universally accepted concepts as conservation of mass and energy is infinitely limited.

The question then becomes how can I KNOW something, whether it's salvation through Christ's death and resurrection or Newtonian physics, is true? The answer is I can't. As an engineer, I have to take it on faith that the principles I have been trained on to be true.

That said, all progress in every human experience comes from questioning one's faith, analysing the implications, consequences, and meaning of it, challenging it and seeing how it stands to your challenge. This, I believe, is genuine faith as opposed to blind faith, but the broader implication of it is that to progress personally, let alone collectively, is to actually have faith to question.

For me personally and in fellowship with others, I always ask the question (or some variant therein): "If God were truly God, what would he be?" As revealed in the Scriptures and in his work in the world, the answers I find to that challenge have more and more affirmed my faith personally in the unfailing nature of his word, his will, and as a side benefit, significantly increased my personal levels of knowledge, wisdom, and understanding.

Back to the subject of faith, though. In our limited, finite nature, we as human beings have no choice BUT to have faith. As finite, mortal creatures we really are not much different from a rabbit climbing over a berm. We don't know if there will be a hungry coyote on the other side or if there will be a field of tasty carrots.

Like all mortal creatures, we possess physical, carnal instincts which can drive us to survive in the most rudimentary of ways. Like the rabbit, we can climb the berm, forage for food, and run away or possible defend ourselves from predators. However, our ability to envision and comprehend the immaterial and direct our energies towards realizing that which does not exist is completely distinct out of everything else in creation. Unlike the rabbit, we can demolish the berm, cultivate our own food, and pre-emptively annihilate the predator using weapons we created from our imagination.

When we envision in our minds a long stick with a pointy rock attached by a few pieces of stringy material it is faith that the realization of such a thing possesses value TO ENHANCE OUR SURVIVABILITY that drives us to create such things. When we envision colourful, magical, singing, anthromorphic pony cartoons it is faith that the realization of such things TO ENHANCE OUR SURVIVAL that drives us to create such things. Thus, it is faith that drives us as human beings to expand our mortal experience beyond the mere survival experience.

As a tangent, that's a play on a quote I read from Survival Blog last night:

"Friendship is unnecessary, like philosophy, like art... It has no survival value; rather it is one of those things that give value to survival." - C.S. Lewis

The point I'm getting at is that it is FAITH that makes the human experience so much more remarkable compared to anything else in creation. Everything else that lives has to suffer an existence completely characterized by struggling to survive. Nothing but humanity naturally has the ability to have complete trust or confidence in someone or something. This is the fundamental definition of faith.

While faith can be misplaced and lost this itself it doesn't change the fact that faith is the greatest attribute of humanity which is the reason we are, and until God decides otherwise, always WILL be the dominant species on the planet.

To anyone "with no faith" there's two video's I'll challenge you to watch as well.

The first one is very short but very graphic, be warned. Some questions I'll pose to you as you watch it is how do you know that the EXACT thing won't happen to you? The inescapable answer is you don't.

Long before this video occurred, how could the people involved have reconciled that their life had meaning, knowing this could have happened to them regardless of their control? If the person (or persons) in the video knew there was the possibility this could happen - why did they bother doing anything at all? There are only 2 possible answers:
1. they deluded themselves about the assured possibility of their own mortality or
2. they had faith, SOME kind of faith that drove them to believe their life had meaning even knowing someday they might have befallen this kind of fate.

http://rmirror.net/r/videos/comments/q5h...dent_nsfl/

Fundamentally, that's the difference between a life lived by faith and a life not. One is a delusional one, where the only motivator to live is to somehow fool yourself into believing you will never die. One is a hopeful one, where you can accept and reconcile your inevitable fate. The implications of the choice to live a life by faith or not are enormous.

Coming from both perspectives, I can say the faithless life is a shallow, superficial, ungratifying one. Ultimately, the unavoidable truth always comes up that death will render almost everything you do meaningless to you. Your relationships, your possessions, your wealth, your hopes and dreams. All of them will just evaporate the moment your life ends - it's really quite terrifying when you think about it. Thus, this life is a very religious life. Finding meaning devoid of faith is nothing but a ritualistic grind, moving from one thing to the next to blindly obey, in the hopes that giving it your unchallenged obedience, you can forget that you are nothing more than a fragile, mortal creature. Having been there, and occasionally drifting back, I say the times I am most unhappy is when I find myself living that way.

On the other hand the faith filled life, depending on what you put your faith in, is a triumphant, rewarding, glorious life. It is a life of freedom and joy. For me, "obedience" to God (faith in him) is a free choice made willingly and logically. It's not dogmatic or religious, but relationally and rationally. Faith is the most critical component of forming meaningful relationship, as faith with God is relationship with him. From that relationship, all relationships have deep meaning - as by loving God and being his instrument in this world, I have absolute confidence that just as God is eternal, everything I do out of relationship with him has eternal significance. This is the greatest joy and how I can look to my family and friends with joy, even knowing with certainty someday I will leave them in this life or they will leave me.

The second video I have is an episode of My Little Pony that I think brilliantly summarizes the concept of faith. I won't spoil it for you, but I'll say I wholeheartedly agree with the fundamental message, especially on how faith and friendship go hand in hand.

If you don't want to watch it, skip to 20:45. Still, I HIGHLY recommend watching the whole thing.

[victor kruger]

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  The point I'm getting at is that it is FAITH that makes the human experience so much more remarkable compared to anything else in creation. Everything else that lives has to suffer an existence completely characterized by struggling to survive. Nothing but humanity naturally has the ability to have complete trust or confidence in someone or something. This is the fundamental definition of faith.

Not true, humans have to suffer exactly the same. How do you know your animal does not put complete complete trust in their keeper ? you simply don't. What a human has the ability to do is reason and believe in something they cannot see or prove to be real. That is the power of reason. Humans have imagination and the power to use reason with that to invent, create and realise dreams. It is all this that sets us apart and with it we have learned to create that which is called "faith" a purely human emotion. If you have it good for you but it does not mean your life is any better than another's for it, just your perception that it is and that in itself can change everything for you. It can motivate as strong as others have a will, it can sooth as others find solace in something else. It is what it is, yet it is in the end a personal imagination manifest within ones-self.

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  The first one is very short but very graphic, be warned. Some questions I'll pose to you as you watch it is how do you know that the EXACT thing won't happen to you? The inescapable answer is you don't.

Correct no one knows the exact fate that awaits them, having faith or not makes no difference.

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  Long before this video occurred, how could the people involved have reconciled that their life had meaning, knowing this could have happened to them regardless of their control? If the person (or persons) in the video knew there was the possibility this could happen - why did they bother doing anything at all? There are only 2 possible answers:
1. they deluded themselves about the assured possibility of their own mortality or
2. they had faith, SOME kind of faith that drove them to believe their life had meaning even knowing someday they might have befallen this kind of fate.

It is irrelevent as they still died. I hope it was quick.

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  Fundamentally, that's the difference between a life lived by faith and a life not. One is a delusional one, where the only motivator to live is to somehow fool yourself into believing you will never die. One is a hopeful one, where you can accept and reconcile your inevitable fate. The implications of the choice to live a life by faith or not are enormous.

Again faith means an awful lot to some people and is inconsequential to others. It is true everyone dies and to reconcile that with yourself is to realise fate for what it is and our own fragile mortality. As it is for all life on this earth and should be considered always.

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  Coming from both perspectives, I can say the faithless life is a shallow, superficial, ungratifying one. Ultimately, the unavoidable truth always comes up that death will render almost everything you do meaningless to you. Your relationships, your possessions, your wealth, your hopes and dreams. All of them will just evaporate the moment your life ends - it's really quite terrifying when you think about it. Thus, this life is a very religious life. Finding meaning devoid of faith is nothing but a ritualistic grind, moving from one thing to the next to blindly obey, in the hopes that giving it your unchallenged obedience, you can forget that you are nothing more than a fragile, mortal creature. Having been there, and occasionally drifting back, I say the times I am most unhappy is when I find myself living that way.

Life is different for all, to assume others have a meaningless life because they do not have "faith" is a fallacy.

You say that all we do in life has no meaning, yet while we inhabit this life everything we do in fact has meaning, and plenty of what we do goes on after we die, how you act and the things you do in life can affect others long after your gone, consider your children, how you bring them up and the values you instil carries on after your dust. Death for me is not in the least bit terrifying or even much of a concern, it will come one day as it will for all. This is nothing to be scared of but rather an encouragement to live your life to the full while you have it.

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  I have absolute confidence that just as God is eternal, everything I do out of relationship with him has eternal significance. This is the greatest joy and how I can look to my family and friends with joy, even knowing with certainty someday I will leave them in this life or they will leave me.

This is all that matters, that you have reconciled your mortality and enjoy life while here. Some require faith to do this and some do not, others drift along unhappy and yes for them the path is a lonely one, however it is far from the fact that they do not have faith, rather it is just they have not found anything that gives their life meaning that is all, be it faith or something else.

just my 2 cents from someone who does not have "faith" yet is happy, content and accepts life and death with all its warts.

[kshymkiw]

Nice Victor.

[Silver Wilbur]

You do not choose God. God chooses you.

Period.

[victor kruger]

(03-21-2012 07:50 PM)Silver Wilbur Wrote:  You do not choose God. God chooses you.

Period.

You see, that is your perception of what you call "faith" talking to you....good for you.

[Dudesome]

I can.only say one thing.
Where there is faith there will always be a doubt. Faith can not exist without a doubt.
Knowledge on the otherhand destroys all doubt. Yet the wrong knowledge.makes one ignorant.

To separate real knowledge from.false is not a hard thing at all. False knowledge will bring total contradiction to another knowledge.
The real knowledge contradictions, when studied, dispear. Real knowledge supplements one another to bring a wider picutre

[Chin Music]

(03-21-2012 10:25 AM)kshymkiw Wrote:  So my question is this. If someone is of faith, and has faith in a religious book/denomination/service/whatever does that mean said person also needs to let faith guide them on other decisions in life? Essentially is faith universal across a person, or can a person have faith in religion, but lack faith on other items?

You have read my testimony in the other thread you created called “Question”. When I read the material (The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey) given me by my Christian friend the story that is unfolded in that book caused me to comprehend more fully what was happening in the world around me. The book was based off of bible prophecy which I found impressive as it related to current events. That the bible could predict events coming about thousands of years in advance was quite eye opening to me.

After reading the main theme of the book concerning bible prophecy I began to see that the bible was more than just a book containing stories of inspiration or life lessons. I couldn’t put my finger exactly on it but I knew there was more to it than just a good book.

In the back of “The Late Great Planet Earth” Mr. Lindsey explains salvation and sites many scriptures on salvation which I looked up in the bible to see if it were so. It was. As explained in my testimony I tried to get my Christian friend to lead me in the sinners prayer (I thought someone had to lead me) by telling her “I want Jesus as my Lord and Savior”. Those words I spoke were a confession of faith for I had become convinced by scripture that to be saved I needed to accept Jesus as my Lord. As you know my friend didn’t lead me in that prayer and I was left scratching my head.

Romans 10:17 (NKJV)
(17) faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

You see, by reading that book and looking up the referenced bible passages faith sprang up by hearing the word of God. This caused me to want to be saved and to relay that to my friend. Even though my friend didn’t believe my sincerity God could see my heart and accepted my confession of faith.

Romans 10:13 (NKJV)
(13) For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

After the above described event my life changed. Some things changed immediately, others fell off along the way and some are still a work in progress. Walking by faith is a life long process and progression. It requires love and commitment coupled with stumbling. I am provided mercy and grace while I stumble as my Lord and Savior carries me through the journey. Faith for a Christian should continue to grow throughout life encompassing all of their life in the process. Heavy statement to be sure but that is the instruction from Gods Word. Not all Christians (born again) continue the lifelong process for some reach a certain level and stay there. Some of us make progress, stop and then continue after realizing nothing in this realm is as fulfilling as living by faith.

To sum this all up I submit to you the following.

Habakkuk 2:4 (NKJV)
(4) “Behold the proud, his soul is not upright in him;
But the just shall live by his faith.

Habakkuk is found near the end of the Old Testament. I want to draw your attention to “But the just shall live by his faith”. This statement is not a request nor a suggestion but instruction to the Christian. This part of the passage is quoted three times in the New Testament one time each in Romans, Galatians and Hebrews. Remarkably it forms a Trilogy penned by the Holy Spirit breaking down “The just shall live by faith” giving the believer an in-depth study of the progressive life we should live.

It is broken down as follows ….

The Just (who are the just) Romans
Shall Live (how shall they live) Galatians
By Faith (what is faith) Hebrews

Romans 1:17 (NKJV)
(17) For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “the just shall live by faith.”

Galatians 3:11 (NKJV)
(11) But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”

Hebrews 10:38 (NKJV)
(38) Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”

So kshymkiw my answer to you is it’s universal by progressive growth.

[Bob-bullion]

Everyone has faith. But that faith is only as "good" as the Person it is placed upon.

I have faith that I will get paid next week; a reasonably good chance of that being true. Faith that the driver coming the other way will keep the little orange double line between me and him even though I never met this person and believe I won't meet him/or her except by accident .

But to have faith in your Creator is the most important of things. It is required as God demands it.

In Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Faith Honors God as it says we submit to Him as He is who He says He is. His Word is truth. To say otherwise is to call God a liar and I cannot imagine a greater insult to the Creator and Sustainer of all things.

[agsilverbear]

Jesus is our Creator, that was the easy part. What cost him was our redemption.

[harbl_the_cat]

(03-21-2012 03:42 PM)victor kruger Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  The point I'm getting at is that it is FAITH that makes the human experience so much more remarkable compared to anything else in creation. Everything else that lives has to suffer an existence completely characterized by struggling to survive. Nothing but humanity naturally has the ability to have complete trust or confidence in someone or something. This is the fundamental definition of faith.

Not true, humans have to suffer exactly the same. How do you know your animal does not put complete complete trust in their keeper ? you simply don't. What a human has the ability to do is reason and believe in something they cannot see or prove to be real. That is the power of reason. Humans have imagination and the power to use reason with that to invent, create and realise dreams. It is all this that sets us apart and with it we have learned to create that which is called "faith" a purely human emotion. If you have it good for you but it does not mean your life is any better than another's for it, just your perception that it is and that in itself can change everything for you. It can motivate as strong as others have a will, it can sooth as others find solace in something else. It is what it is, yet it is in the end a personal imagination manifest within ones-self.

I contend our ability to reason is a function of our ability to place our trust in what we do not know and cannot by our own abilities comprehend or experience.

My cat doesn't know that there might be someone out there who will give her a free meal, but she knows that I give her 3 (or 5) square meals a day. Thus, her behaviour is entirely driven by her physical existence and her physical experiences with me - not through an abstract understanding of something that may or may not exist.

On the contrary, I KNOW things exist in the universe, even if I cannot see or experience them and accordingly my behaviour is is driven by BOTH my physical existence, the physical experiences I have in the world AND that which in my physical reality does not exist. I can't see, taste, feel, hear, or touch most of the things in this world, but I know they exist. Case in point, I know you reading this exist.

I have FAITH that you reading this are a human being (but who knows, maybe you're an FBI data mining algorithm?), and acting on that faith, I can behave in a way that, from a purely physical standpoint, is completely illogical (what purpose is there to sitting here, pecking away at a plastic device, starring at a flickering screen?).

While there is no PHYSICAL benefit to my acting on faith that you reading this are an actual human being, there is absolute spiritual benefit to it. By doing this, I am forming a relationship with you reading this and my reading what you've shared with me.

The kind of relationship where sentient beings can engage in an exchange of information and ideas across physical boundaries they cannot overcome by their own physical abilities is really miraculous when you think about it - but again, such a relationship hinges entirely on the faith that both of us typing and posting this believing without knowing that we are real human beings with a genuine desire to communicate with one another.

Quote:

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  The first one is very short but very graphic, be warned. Some questions I'll pose to you as you watch it is how do you know that the EXACT thing won't happen to you? The inescapable answer is you don't.

Correct no one knows the exact fate that awaits them, having faith or not makes no difference.

The point I was trying to make wasn't whether or not faith made a difference, but rather what were the logical implications to you (in the rhetorical sense) personally of having faith or not?

Quote:

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  Long before this video occurred, how could the people involved have reconciled that their life had meaning, knowing this could have happened to them regardless of their control? If the person (or persons) in the video knew there was the possibility this could happen - why did they bother doing anything at all? There are only 2 possible answers:
1. they deluded themselves about the assured possibility of their own mortality or
2. they had faith, SOME kind of faith that drove them to believe their life had meaning even knowing someday they might have befallen this kind of fate.

It is irrelevent as they still died. I hope it was quick.

I don't think there's anyway they survived that kind of crash.

To the point though, the point I was trying to make was how does one reach a logical conclusion that their life has meaning knowing inevitably their life will end?

Our entire life is based on faith. Regardless of what we settle on, our life is a journey to discover if there is anything absolute we can put our faith in to know that if our existence is actually real, does it have meaning? If our existence is meaningless, then what's the point in continuing to live?

There's an infinite number of things we can place our faith into to answer that question, but ultimately, everything in this world will fail, and when they do - what do we do when our misplaced faith lands us back at that original question?

Quote:

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  Fundamentally, that's the difference between a life lived by faith and a life not. One is a delusional one, where the only motivator to live is to somehow fool yourself into believing you will never die. One is a hopeful one, where you can accept and reconcile your inevitable fate. The implications of the choice to live a life by faith or not are enormous.

Again faith means an awful lot to some people and is inconsequential to others. It is true everyone dies and to reconcile that with yourself is to realise fate for what it is and our own fragile mortality. As it is for all life on this earth and should be considered always.

I'm not talking about faith as a religious construct, but rather of the human phenomenon to be able to place confidence and trust in a person or entity, even when we have no way to tangibly prove that such a person or entity is deserving of our trust or confidence?

Everyone lives by faith in something, the real question is, is what we put our faith in worthy of that distinction? That again is a rhetorical question that can only be discovered through personal experience and reflection but it also is the primary driver for all human innovation and advancement.

Quote:

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  Coming from both perspectives, I can say the faithless life is a shallow, superficial, ungratifying one. Ultimately, the unavoidable truth always comes up that death will render almost everything you do meaningless to you. Your relationships, your possessions, your wealth, your hopes and dreams. All of them will just evaporate the moment your life ends - it's really quite terrifying when you think about it. Thus, this life is a very religious life. Finding meaning devoid of faith is nothing but a ritualistic grind, moving from one thing to the next to blindly obey, in the hopes that giving it your unchallenged obedience, you can forget that you are nothing more than a fragile, mortal creature. Having been there, and occasionally drifting back, I say the times I am most unhappy is when I find myself living that way.

Life is different for all, to assume others have a meaningless life because they do not have "faith" is a fallacy.

You say that all we do in life has no meaning, yet while we inhabit this life everything we do in fact has meaning, and plenty of what we do goes on after we die, how you act and the things you do in life can affect others long after your gone, consider your children, how you bring them up and the values you instil carries on after your dust. Death for me is not in the least bit terrifying or even much of a concern, it will come one day as it will for all. This is nothing to be scared of but rather an encouragement to live your life to the full while you have it.

I absolutely don't believe anyone's life is meaningless.

However, every pursuit is rendered meaningless with the inescapable knowledge that mortal death robs you of the freedom to personally experience and enjoy your mortal experiences, arguable for all eternity.

That knowledge is so terrifying, that it is impossible to live a full, joy-filled life unless a) you don't believe mortal death is the end of your existence or b) you delude yourself into believing that day will never come.

Quote:

(03-21-2012 11:59 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  I have absolute confidence that just as God is eternal, everything I do out of relationship with him has eternal significance. This is the greatest joy and how I can look to my family and friends with joy, even knowing with certainty someday I will leave them in this life or they will leave me.

This is all that matters, that you have reconciled your mortality and enjoy life while here. Some require faith to do this and some do not, others drift along unhappy and yes for them the path is a lonely one, however it is far from the fact that they do not have faith, rather it is just they have not found anything that gives their life meaning that is all, be it faith or something else.

just my 2 cents from someone who does not have "faith" yet is happy, content and accepts life and death with all its warts.

[quote]

I think conflict we're having is a semantic misunderstanding. My personal spiritual belief is that I am saved by my faith in the free gift of Christ's death and resurrection.

That's a personal belief and we can debate that until the cows come home (I'm trying not to).

What I AM trying to describe is the fact that as human beings we possess a special, innate ability to form beliefs that can't be substantiated in the natural world (supernatural beliefs). Our ability to do so is what allows us to have both wonderful and horrendous mortal experiences and as such differentiates us from everything that physically exists in the universe.

[Silver07]

(03-21-2012 10:25 AM)kshymkiw Wrote:  Another question for those of faith on this forum, since I am not a person of faith.

Last night I went to a "meeting" service at the local Kingdom Hall. Our neighbours are members there, and they convinced my wife to try it out. So being the supportive husband that I am, I went with her to meet all these new people in her life, and to check out the service. Let me say one thing, I am NOT and will NEVER be a person of faith. This isn't for a lack of listening, reading, or attending service. It is something I don't believe in, period.

While sitting there listening to the people talk, and discuss the verses that were read, I heard a lot of people say things like "it shows you have to have faith" or "faith is there" or just things about faith in general, which led me down an interesting thought last night, and it has continued on this morning.

So my question is this. If someone is of faith, and has faith in a religious book/denomination/service/whatever does that mean said person also needs to let faith guide them on other decisions in life? Essentially is faith universal across a person, or can a person have faith in religion, but lack faith on other items?

To answer your question, yes - faith is universal.

You can have faith in anything. The question you should ask now is what is the TRUTH.

If you believe the Holy Bible is the truth, you believe the word of God is the truth. If so, scripture tells us there is a heaven and hell. And your salvation and what happens to your soul after you die depends on you seeking that truth.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. (Hosea 4:6 KJV)

If you come to the faith of the God of the bible and believe his word is the truth, you will learn you were born in sin:

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. (Psalms 51:4-6)

Now what is sin? Sin is transgression of the Law (ALL of God's Commandments):

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1 John 3:4-10)

Now it's evident you can't do this alone and you'll have to seek him. Who is God of the Holy Bible? GOD=Jesus

And HE is 1 GOD:

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD (Deuteronomy 6:4)

One Lord, one faith, one baptism (Ephesians 4:5)

He has 1 People (The seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - Israel). Israel is not the state setup by the Leauge of Nations in 1948 either. It is a people:

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Revelation 14:12)

You must be baptized in water for remission of sins in the name of Jesus Christ:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:16)

I wish you all well in seeking the truth. Many Blessings...

[duckblindK]

(03-21-2012 10:25 AM)kshymkiw Wrote:  Another question for those of faith on this forum, since I am not a person of faith.

Last night I went to a "meeting" service at the local Kingdom Hall. Our neighbours are members there, and they convinced my wife to try it out. So being the supportive husband that I am, I went with her to meet all these new people in her life, and to check out the service. Let me say one thing, I am NOT and will NEVER be a person of faith. This isn't for a lack of listening, reading, or attending service. It is something I don't believe in, period.

While sitting there listening to the people talk, and discuss the verses that were read, I heard a lot of people say things like "it shows you have to have faith" or "faith is there" or just things about faith in general, which led me down an interesting thought last night, and it has continued on this morning.

So my question is this. If someone is of faith, and has faith in a religious book/denomination/service/whatever does that mean said person also needs to let faith guide them on other decisions in life? Essentially is faith universal across a person, or can a person have faith in religion, but lack faith on other items?

Without reading all the other responses, I'm going to try and help answer this one.
Individually, sure, I think that a person's faith (or beliefs) along with prayer should guide them on other decisions in life. Publicly, I think some principles should guide them, but not become the end-all, be-all. For example, I have friends that will vote for someone only because they go to Church, or are a "good" Christian, but ignore the fact that, say, the person was recently indicted for embezzlement or brought up on charges of fraud. We could also say that enacting social laws according to our individual faith (beliefs) is wrong because it forces restrictions onto non-believers. When people in the U.S. have such a problem that abortion is permitted, I simply don't understand it. Just because you have the freedom to do it doesn't mean people have to. However, if we enacted a law forbidding abortion, that would be wrong, because it would force beliefs onto those that don't agree. So, I think that faith should not be universal, although there are many others that would disagree. I suppose it would depend on who you ask, and their INTERPRETATION of what faith means to them.

The same goes for "faith on other items." It depends on word usage. Faith in religion and faith in government or faith that my ex wife will be nice, are entirely different things. I say that because my faith that God will resurrect me from physical death or rapture me as outlined in Revelation is something that I have absolute, concrete faith and believe in. Faith that the local police force will help keep the peace in my neighborhood or, again, if my ex wife will be nice are questionable. I think what you experienced at Kingdom Hall were absolutes (faith in God's deliverance from a situation or experience), but the universality of faith (in things other than the perfect form of God) are not absolute.

Great question it really got me thinking.