DO NOT BUY MAPLES OR EAGLES!!! HERES WHY!!

[dragonfly5]

Harble - you are one well spoken cat.

[harbl_the_cat]

(03-28-2012 01:10 PM)dragonfly5 Wrote:  Harble - you are one well spoken cat.

I certainly have a big mouth that often lands me in trouble.

My cat... not so much unless it's feeding time.

[Mojofabulous]

(03-28-2012 10:57 AM)Silver2012.com Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 10:44 AM)Matt d Wrote:  Does anyone have a good resource for finding out which coins have unlimited mintage and which coins have limited mintage?

From my research, the coins that have unlimited are...

Fiji Taku
African Elephant
Maple
Eagle

Limited Mintage
Canadian Wildlife Series
Australian Coins- Kookaburra, Koala ect.

There are only 10000 2010 taku, 20000 2011 taku and the 2012 is limited but we dont know by how much.

[noudo25]

(03-28-2012 11:42 AM)harbl_the_cat Wrote:  I've said it before, I'll say it again.

The semi-numi's (and even full numi's) are a great diversification to add some price stability to your stack but have a marked disadvantage of reduced fungability and convenience.

One of the most important characteristics of sound money is fungability - that one unit can be mutually substituted for another. This is one reason artwork and diamonds are not sound money - because one unit's value can greatly vary from another, it is difficult to negotiate an exchange between parties in a transaction. This is one of the important fundamentals for those of us who believe gold and silver should be remonetized.

This is evident at the local bullion dealers I deal with in that they price Eagles, Maples, and Libertads the same, both in their buy and sell prices. A 1 oz, nationally minted bullion coin stamped with a currency face value is an equivalent unit regardless of whether it's Mexican, American, or Canadian. They do not have a price set for Perth mint semi-numi products - but from what I've seen of their buy/sell spreads for the RCM wildlife series, they don't price in a significant collectors value for when they buy or sell.

This also brings about the problem with convenience. The semi-numi's straddle two markets - the collectors market and the investment market. Because of this, it creates an inconvenience in that market participants in both markets have different valuations of both those items. The collectors price are more emotionally based (determining value on aesthetics and rarity) while the investment market tends to ride the spot price just on the metal content.

The collectors market requires a lot more involvement from the seller that, for now, requires a lot more effort to attain the maximum sell price (e-bay sales, private sales, etc.). The investment market is as simple as visiting a bullion shop and swapping bullion at market price for something else (other metals or fiat currency) - which is much more convenient, even if it lacks the price stability the collectors market has.

If there's a parabolic price move in silver driven by panic buying of physical, I don't personally believe the numi's will realize the same value they do at the current price levels (I don't believe, but could be wrong, that if silver spot hits $900/oz, a 1 oz cougar will sell for $1800). That said, if the price languishes in the sub $100 range for a few years, absolutely, I can see the semi-numi's value being double or more the spot price.

Me personally, when the spot price of silver is such that <X> oz pays for an average Canadian home, I want to be able to quickly swap a sizeable amount of silver for fiat and quickly swap that fiat for a house. At the same time, I want to keep at least enough silver that if the spot price gets to the point that <X/2> oz to buy the same house, I can quickly swap more to buy another one. Even then, I'd like to keep enough silver on hand that if there's a currency collapse, I have at least <X/2> to <X> oz to swap without the worry that the government will outlaw ownership of the silver and gold I own and that if there's widespread acceptance of silver as a means of exchange, I have the ability to do so.

In those scenarios, there's a valid reason to own everything from numi's to junk silver, which is why I personally diversify with all kinds of physical silver investments.

In conclusion, depending on your personal competency, risk tolerance, and personal objectives, the vehicle of choice be it the full numi's, semi-numi's, nationally minted, generic bullion, or junk silver, is really a personal choice.

Perfect!

[Matt d]

(03-28-2012 03:10 PM)Mojofabulous Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 10:57 AM)Silver2012.com Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 10:44 AM)Matt d Wrote:  Does anyone have a good resource for finding out which coins have unlimited mintage and which coins have limited mintage?

From my research, the coins that have unlimited are...

Fiji Taku
African Elephant
Maple
Eagle

Limited Mintage
Canadian Wildlife Series
Australian Coins- Kookaburra, Koala ect.

There are only 10000 2010 taku, 20000 2011 taku and the 2012 is limited but we dont know by how much.

The New Zealand mint website shows year of issue: 2010 and mintage: Unlimited.

http://newzealandmint.com/coins/shop-onl...llion-coin

[Mr.Akamkk]

(03-28-2012 10:24 AM)mike silverhair Wrote:  I think that everyone here needs to chill a little and accept the fact that we all buy silver for different reasons.Theres nothing wrong with buying what you think will increase in value due to a great design,and nothing wrong in stacking an established or well known silver coin at close to spot.I personally try to buy a few rolls of SAEs or maples for close to spot every year.I also buy coins with designs that appeal to me such as brittanias,takus,pandas and dragons.Will I make alot of money with them?I dont know but I enjoy looking at them,and for me thats enough.I would rather see us encourage each other in what we collect,instead of beating each other up over our different prespectives.

Very well said Mike and I have to completely agree with you. Part of the beauty of freedom is being free. There is nothing to say that two opinions can't be right at the same time, that I think would be democracy at its lowest level. I'm with you, I buy what I buy because I like to look at it in my hands, it is appealing or I wouldn't buy it. If at some point in time it is worth allot of money, GREAT, if not it gets left to my children and grandchildren and so on until one of them needs the money for whatever reason.

[agsilverbear]

Quote:A 1 oz, nationally minted bullion coin stamped with a currency face value is an equivalent unit regardless of whether it's Mexican, American, or Canadian.

How does a face value stamp on a coin determine it's value? I believe it's value should be determined by the market rather than by government decree. It's possible I'm misunderstanding what you are saying..

[Mojofabulous]

It doesn't determine it's value. The governments can pretend to value the coin based on the number they stamp on it, but no one with any clue actually believes that is it's true value.

[dave606]

(03-27-2012 10:09 PM)Silver2012.com Wrote:  It boggles my mind why people would still buy regular Maples or Eagles.

These coins have an unlimited mintage and the design doesn't change.
Since the design doesn't change, there are over 100 million of the Eagle and Maple design floating around eBay. Maples and Eagles are so available that no one is willing to pay much more over spot for them. If you look at the mintage numbers for these two coins, they have been EXPLODING lately!!!

Why would you ever buy a 2012 Maple or Eagle when you can get something limited mintage such as an Australian Kookaburra or a Canadian Cougar for just a few dollars more? Your coin is instantly worth more than what you paid, and the rarity factor makes the coin's value appreciate regardless of price.

Anyone disagree?

I disagree. You buy Maples and Eagles for their guarantee of silver content. Everyone is familiar with them. Not everyone on here plans to flip their coins for numismatic value. I know plenty of people that only buy Junk and never will pay a penny over spot. My friend has 270 lbs. of junk. Had he bought numismatic value silver coins he would have paid probably $11,000-$12,000 more for the same amount silver. Had he purchased a Timber Wolf it would never benefit him because he will never sell an ounce of silver. So the point of this, is everyone has their own way of stacking. Some people pay a little over spot for Eagles and Maples for the liquidity they provide. Others pay even more over spot for the numismatics they provide. As long as your stacking, i would never tell someone they are buying the wrong kind of silver.

[victor kruger]

Each to their own what and how they collect.

From what I see from the OP he's an ebay flipper and short term stacker so may suit him but I don't agree with the numis, to me its a scam no different than stamp collecting was only with PM... and now they are painting them etc...I see no point in decorating PM other than as a gimmick picking up a few designs as a keepsake.

Personally I would never buy from Ebay, thats asking for trouble. Sure theres one born every minute but anyone with a few smarts works out its getting increasingly overpriced on Ebay too.Sooner or later youll get ripped off and sooner or later a smart little Chinaman will be copying all those semi and numis, knowing its very unlikely they will be ever tested but just sit in their pretty little capsules. No thanks.

Without ebay though there wouldnt be such an easy market...and in SHTF scenario it'll make no difference on the design, nor will you care, ebay will be dead along with everything else. It's already expensive along with paypal on fees and a traceable money trail, why the heck would I wish to advertise and go through all that for a few $ ? In the event there is no SHTF then the last thing im interested in being is a modern day stamp collector.

Silver is silver so ill stick with what I like and others can do the same.

In a nutshell don't waste my time telling me what I should presume to do with my life and I won't tell you.

[cowS grazinG]

all well and good, just don't get trapped

if one just started, then go both ways, 50% focus on bullion then balance go for numis, but for a beginner its hard to get the coins that will be appreciating the most in terms of $
there will be risks, that the numis bought will be selling just below RRP because people un-like them.

if your stash is more than 2 monsters boxes, then by all means go for the best and the most potential, speaking with hind side, like red-back, gulo-gulo and so on. etc

so long as you remember to increase your oz.

[omygSilver]

The simple and possibly over simplification reason to disagree is diversification in the market place. If everybody purchased silver the exact same way very few would have the opportunity to purchase any. It is always fun to hear those who say "do it my way" all puffed up because "I know better". When it is better to say "purchase what you know!"

If everybody did it my way a few of us would make a lot of money and a fewer on the inner circle when the trigger is pulled will do many many times better than the rest. The end result is a matter of the theory of large numbers and what goes up must come down and often in a Crash.


Personally I only want you to buy the same things I have been buying is when I am selling!

[agsilverbear]

(03-29-2012 08:24 AM)victor kruger Wrote:  Each to their own what and how they collect.

From what I see from the OP he's an ebay flipper and short term stacker so may suit him but I don't agree with the numis, to me its a scam no different than stamp collecting was only with PM... and now they are painting them etc...I see no point in decorating PM other than as a gimmick picking up a few designs as a keepsake.

Personally I would never buy from Ebay, thats asking for trouble. Sure theres one born every minute but anyone with a few smarts works out its getting increasingly overpriced on Ebay too.Sooner or later youll get ripped off and sooner or later a smart little Chinaman will be copying all those semi and numis, knowing its very unlikely they will be ever tested but just sit in their pretty little capsules. No thanks.

Without ebay though there wouldnt be such an easy market...and in SHTF scenario it'll make no difference on the design, nor will you care, ebay will be dead along with everything else. It's already expensive along with paypal on fees and a traceable money trail, why the heck would I wish to advertise and go through all that for a few $ ? In the event there is no SHTF then the last thing im interested in being is a modern day stamp collector.

Silver is silver so ill stick with what I like and others can do the same.

In a nutshell don't waste my time telling me what I should presume to do with my life and I won't tell you.

Edit:
"From what I see from the OP he's an ebay flipper and short term stacker"
There is nothing wrong with buying and selling coins for a profit. I'm not sure why you think that and stacking are mutually exclusive when you can do both. I also disagree with just about everything else you said in your post but I'll leave it at that.

[modelaer]

The silver content and the ability to readily identify a coin as real silver will be the most important factor. The value of an 1878 CC Morgan over a 1921 Morgan will be academic, you will have to use all your salesmanship to get someone to recognize the coins inferred value.

[silverexplosion]

I agree. I do have both maples and eagles, but only a couple hundred of them. I have lots of Kooks, Cougars, Timberwolf, Grizzly, Moose, Panda, etc, I think the limiteds, your better off. Hell, the Timberwolf are selling for over $60.

[victor kruger]

(03-29-2012 10:19 PM)agsilverbear Wrote:  Edit:
"From what I see from the OP he's an ebay flipper and short term stacker"
There is nothing wrong with buying and selling coins for a profit. I'm not sure why you think that and stacking are mutually exclusive when you can do both. I also disagree with just about everything else you said in your post but I'll leave it at that.

I said right at the beginning each to their own. I didn't say there was anything wrong with it or exclusive, you did.

[modelaer]

Reminds me of the scene in the movie “… in Philadelphia it’s worth fifty bucks.”; Trading Places.

[agsilverbear]

(03-31-2012 09:19 AM)victor kruger Wrote:  

(03-29-2012 10:19 PM)agsilverbear Wrote:  Edit:
"From what I see from the OP he's an ebay flipper and short term stacker"
There is nothing wrong with buying and selling coins for a profit. I'm not sure why you think that and stacking are mutually exclusive when you can do both. I also disagree with just about everything else you said in your post but I'll leave it at that.

I said right at the beginning each to their own. I didn't say there was anything wrong with it or exclusive, you did.

You said that the OP is an ebay flipper then you proceeded to characterize people who utilize that market for coin purchases as fools.

You said the OP is a short term stacker, the implication being that because he sells coins on ebay he isn't a long-term stacker. He may or may not be, I don't ask people how much silver own.

[toledofox]

(03-27-2012 10:55 PM)Dudesome Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 10:47 PM)Silver2012.com Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 10:38 PM)Dudesome Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 10:35 PM)SonofYAHWEH Wrote:  Yes I disagree. People buy them for the simple fact the are just over spot and come from mints within countries and they are very hard to manipulate to make frauds. Stacking does not have to be numis and should not be. Diversify, but maples are a great buy, you would be fool not to own any.

agree! if you are buying silver for the silver content, you would be a fool to buy anything but maples, philharmonics or other generic bullion coins.

But why buy a Maple that sells for the same on eBay the second you buy it, and not buy a Cougar for $2 more which sells for $10 more on eBay right away???

In my opinion, the VALUE of my silver stack is much more important than the AMOUNT of my silver stack.

THINK OF IT THIS WAY- 1 year ago, you bought Maples, I bought Timber Wolves. Who has the better investment?

Dude, most ppl here are buying silver and gold for one reason... they are waiting the shit hit the fan scenario. Nobody is going to care if it's a panda or maple after that. well almost nobody.
We are buying for the long term.

Dude, i agree. Most of us are buying for the long term and if SHTF scenario ever happens most are not going to worry about numis values. When it comes to trade and bartering for survival - silver is silver is silver. Even more so, when silver and gold skyrocket those premiums and high mintages will not matter.

[TigerBeer]

Buying is easy, selling is..

Im from Asia and i tried a little experiment that everyone should try as well wherever you are because ..
I went into an area that has a lot of PawnShops, and i said, "Hey hi so how much for pure 999 Silver/Oz"
and i got:
'Silver ? ah nonono CANNOT, DONT WANT, OnlyGold, SIlver Not expensive, Maybe u try CashConverter'

Quite depressing, not a single one was interested in what i had to say.Ears Locked, Brain Locked.

I have quite a decent amount already.. and if the price is tomorrow 100$m i have no f***** idea where and who is going to buy back.

We need to realize that:
Normal people (Sheeples as you say lol or Zombies) dont make investments
Advanced people buy ETF
Master people buy Physical Gold
Jedi buy Physical Silver, and as we know they arent a lot of Jedi on the universe, and its niche market (so far)

THIS MUST CHANGE
KON."SILVER" 2012

[SYGY]

(04-01-2012 12:00 PM)TigerBeer Wrote:  Buying is easy, selling is..

Im from Asia and i tried a little experiment that everyone should try as well wherever you are because ..
I went into an area that has a lot of PawnShops, and i said, "Hey hi so how much for pure 999 Silver/Oz"
and i got:
'Silver ? ah nonono CANNOT, DONT WANT, OnlyGold, SIlver Not expensive, Maybe u try CashConverter'

Quite depressing, not a single one was interested in what i had to say.Ears Locked, Brain Locked.

I have quite a decent amount already.. and if the price is tomorrow 100$m i have no f***** idea where and who is going to buy back.

We need to realize that:
Normal people (Sheeples as you say lol or Zombies) dont make investments
Advanced people buy ETF
Master people buy Physical Gold
Jedi buy Physical Silver, and as we know they arent a lot of Jedi on the universe, and its niche market (so far)

THIS MUST CHANGE
KON."SILVER" 2012

Most precious metal dealer's will gladly bye your stuff ,look into it in your neck of the woods,,,selling will be easy you just need to find a good dealer near you,,rather simple really allthough selling private might give you a higher rate

[Needabiggerstack]

I agree with the OP, though obviously many here are convinced SHTF will happen and just stack for silver content.

Too many people stuck in their ways with comments like ' I aint never getting rid of my silver' no way. Personally, i don't stack for the sake of it but to preserve a bit of wealth against my national currency and to have it there to spend if I need something. Therefore I like to hedge, and paying a few bucks over an ASE or Maple is always worth the play to me. You will always at least get that premium back (I don't know why you guys would think of taking numis to a coin dealer for melt but anyway....) when you sell and occasionally will hit the jackpot.

personally I like

1. Stacking
2. Buying s-numis to flip for an immediate profit to enable more of 1.
3. Buying s-numis to hold for a long term increase.

Whats the worst case scenario? No one cares about s-numis in future as silver has gone 'to da moon'? Have you lost? Yup, a whole $2-3 but it will hardly matter if silver is in the stratosphere.

Take the 1oz dragons, I purchased mine for £44 (im in uk) when spot was close to mid 40's and they are selling for £60 today, thats 'selling' even though silver spot has taken a $10 hit. I believe that's the semi-numis hedge the OP is talking about - there really is not much downside to buying semi-numis other than if the SHTF and silver does reach the stratosphere you still win anyway you just make a little less profit. Personally, I hate having all the eggs in one basket. Semi-numis ticks the 'diversification' box for me.

Each to their own however...

[psychosn4ke]

(03-28-2012 10:57 AM)Silver2012.com Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 10:44 AM)Matt d Wrote:  Does anyone have a good resource for finding out which coins have unlimited mintage and which coins have limited mintage?

From my research, the coins that have unlimited are...

Fiji Taku
African Elephant
Maple
Eagle

Not sure about the African Elephant...
http://www.emporium-hamburg.de/fileadmin...Silber.pdf
http://www.emporium-hamburg.de/?id=10&L=2

[Mojofabulous]

(04-04-2012 07:33 AM)psychosn4ke Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 10:57 AM)Silver2012.com Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 10:44 AM)Matt d Wrote:  Does anyone have a good resource for finding out which coins have unlimited mintage and which coins have limited mintage?

From my research, the coins that have unlimited are...

Fiji Taku
African Elephant
Maple
Eagle

Not sure about the African Elephant...
http://www.emporium-hamburg.de/fileadmin...Silber.pdf
http://www.emporium-hamburg.de/?id=10&L=2

Those are the proofs. I got fooled by that page a while back. The mintages arent officially limited, but that doesnt mean the mintages are high. They are certainly higher than 5000 though.